[meteorite-list] Pronouncing Willamette and other meteorite names

[mexicodoug at aim.com]

Darren G. wrote:

"MexicoDoug, try this little experiment while in the US-- write down 
the word
"Allende" on a piece of paper.  Show it to every gringo you meet, ask 
them how
to pronounce it.

Hey Darren, OK.  Those sly gr*ngos!!! I just did and tried.

They pronounced:
"All GIMEEE!!!!"

"Better yet, get the whitest looking guy you can find to ask
for you."

OK - He said:
Me See-Ayyy-Eye", You GIMEE!!!

"I woud be shocked if anything more than a small minority of English
speakers got it right."

Not too shocked, just warmly stirred ;)

Best wishes,
Doug




-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net>
To: Meteorite List <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:16 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pronouncing Willamette and other 
meteorite names



On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 02:45:25 -0700, you wrote:

>        As for Allende, someone said there is nothing wrong
>With "Anglicizing" a word....You would have a VERY
>Difficult time living in So. CA - going to El Cajon (el ca hone)
>And La Jolla (la hoy ya) etc. Even in LA, they pronounce
>It "row DAY oh" Drive, not rodeo drive, as it was the Spanish
>Name place originally.

You can pick and choose names that keep their original pronounciation 
if you
want.  But you can also pick and choose names that have been Anglicized 
if you
want.  The point is, if a word LOOKS like it follows the spelling of a
"traditional" English word-- unless you have evidence otherwise-- you 
will
usually try to pronounce it as if it were a "traditional" English word 
(and the
same goes for non-English speakers, of course-- if the word LOOKS to 
fit the
conventions of your languge, I'll bet that, with no instruction 
otherwise,
you'll try to pronounce it according to the conventions of your 
language).  Your
examples "El Cajon" and "La Jolla" look obviously Spanish and not 
English.  But
"Allende" looks like a perfectly cromulent English word-- you have, 
Allentown,
PA, for example, not Ayantown, PA.  So "Allende" just didn't trigger an 
alarm in
my head to pronounce it differently-- I wasn't being contrary, it 
simply never
occured to me.

MexicoDoug, try this little experiment while in the US-- write down the 
word
"Allende" on a piece of paper.  Show it to every gringo you meet, ask 
them how
to pronounce it.  Better yet, get the whitest looking guy you can find 
to ask
for you.  I woud be shocked if anything more than a small minority of 
English
speakers got it right.

Also, another issue, I've never heard the large majority of all 
meteorite names
(and, indeed, possibly the majority of all techinical scientific terms, 
species
names, etc that are well known to me) pronounced aloud.  Except for 
those who
are professionals in the field and/or go to meteorite sales, I'd say 
that stands
for most people who are hobbyists in obscure fields that are mostly 
accessed
through books and the internet, without a local population of 
like-minded people
to meet with.  Back to Williamette, the first (and only) time I have 
ever heard
that word spoken aloud was in that film Darrly Pitt had someone put 
together--
that guy was pronouncing it right, I thought he was a rube getting it 
wrong.

Meteorites can come from anywhere in the world-- which means that you 
are
potentially faced with knowing the pronounciation rules/phonics for any 
language
in the world-- does that assume that we should be assumed to know how 
all those
other languages work when you just see the word in print?  (And I 
shudder to
think of a meteorite named in a Khoisan or similar language that strays
profoundly from Indo-European phonics-- "anyone have a partslice of
clickpopgulp?")

>        The problem with "Anglicizing" a word is two fold:
>1) it assumes an ethnocentric approach to the word and

So what?  If you get rid of all the words that have been adopted into 
and
modified to make English, you'll have-- well, I guess you'll have 
nothing,
English is such a mongrel.  Would you rather have English more massively
complicated with exceptions to spelling/pronounciation rules than the 
chaos that
it already is?  I've been reading and writing English for all my life, 
and I
still have to look up spellings of words (including in this post) 
because of the
mess that English conventions are.  Pronouncing the names of all 
foreign cities
and countries the same way the natives do in their language would take 
massive
effort.

>        Anyway, of course, you can call your mother or father's sister
>"ant" or "aunt" and people will understand.... But one is correct and
>One is less so.

Right-- "ant" is correct.  Only losers pronounce the silent "u".

(Myself, I always wonder how the word "o-rang-utan" to most people is 
pronounced
"arang-atang")
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