[meteorite-list] ...Mail or Algeria...

[mexicodoug]

Hi Walter and List,

>What is "official."

I'm not going to touch that "official" with a ten foot pole by myself.

The MetSoc/USGS online database only lists Brenham and states that in 
addition to this being the correct spelling complete with punctuation and 
diacritical marks, it trys to also provide any known synonym that may be 
encountered.

http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/about.html

within 15 Km of Haviland, it returns as "official" names only the anomolous 
pallasite called Brenham, and that Haviland for that is a synonym that might 
be encountered but is not returned as an "official meteorite name", plus two 
other different officially named H5's that were both found and are given the 
distinct names Haviland (a) and (b).

Like Glorieta Mountain and Seymchan there are apparently siderite pieces and 
pallasite pieces from the same fall which etch the same, etc., according to 
posts we've seen on the lists, implying that these bodies had varying mix 
regarding the olivine crystals.

The databas explains:

"The primary function of this database is to provide authoritative 
information about meteorite names. The correct spelling, complete with 
punctuation and diacritical marks, of all known meteorites recognized by the 
Meteoritical Society may be found in this compilation. Official 
abbreviations for many meteorites are documented here as well. The database 
also contains status information for meteorites with provisional names, and 
listings for specimens of doubtful origin and pseudometeorites.
In addition, this database is a clearinghouse for basic information about 
each meteorite, including the classification, place and year of discovery, 
whether if was observed to fall, references to catalogues in which the 
meteorite is described, and known synonyms that may be encountered in the 
literature."

Hope this helps,
Best Health and Cheers,
Doug



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Walter Branch" <waltbranch at bellsouth.net>
To: "mexicodoug" <mexicodoug at aol.com>; <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ...Mail or Algeria...


> Hi Doug and Everyone,
>
>>but I think the Haviland/Greenburg/Brenham situation >illustrates this 
>>fine given the community pride there.
>
> This name has confused me for some time.  I have seen references to all 
> three being used to refer to pallasites.  I have also seen references to 
> all three being used to describe an iron (non-pallasite) meteorite.
>
> What is "official."
>
> -Walter Branch
> ________________________
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "mexicodoug" <mexicodoug at aol.com>
> To: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 4:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ...Mail or Algeria...
>
>
>> Hello, Anne, Greg, List (old message that didn't post properly, sort of a 
>> 'synonym' superceded by my post to Martin),
>>
>> Anne, I must disagree.  A synonym in biology is "A scientific name of an 
>> organism or of a taxonomic group that has been superseded by another name 
>> at the same rank.".  While you may be thinking about the non-scientific 
>> "synonym", or the type of synonym used in botany which leaves room for 
>> interpretation in classification, I expect the NomCom has a steadfast 
>> policy.
>>
>> I don't think it is a good idea to see the 35 synonyms of Campo del Cielo 
>> including "El Taco" as "accepted" plastered all over collections, eBay, 
>> as being implied with Oum Dreyga (still wondering, is Serpent-mother a 
>> translation?).  At issue is not whether the meteorite has been called 
>> Amgala in the past - this obviously is the case or there would be nothing 
>> to talk about.
>>
>> Being "accepted" as a synonym to me means nothing more than a 
>> confirmation that this synonym is scientifically obsolete the way I 
>> interpret this, and the MetSoc/USGS database is trying to be helpful to 
>> insure official nomenclature so old names can be properly classified, not 
>> to perpetuate unofficial (but recognized before the modern science was 
>> done) synonyms. But I could be wrong as my ... always tells me:-),
>>
>> In the words of Zelimir referencing Captain Blood (May 11, 2005: Is 
>> Amgala Official?: excerpted from met-list)
>>
>> "...Oum Dreyga is just as fine as Juancheng.  Hey Marcin, you'll get used 
>> to it soon. You can talk about Amgala but you should sooner or later 
>> re-write your labels with the new name, so as to fit the official 
>> decisions, and remain the serious and reliable dealer you are now.  After 
>> all, be happy thet the Nom Com maintained "Bensour", another name that 
>> was used everywhere, everytime, before the official classification....
>>
>> "You are completely right Michael. This is true not only in Botany but 
>> also in the recent meteorite history.  A couple of years ago, I purchesed 
>> "Turkmenbashi" and "Heze" (names that are still on the original labels). 
>> Many of us probably still remember that these names now respectively 
>> correspond to the well (best) known meteorites
>> "Kunya Urgensh" and "Juancheng".  There should be many other such 
>> examples, Canon Diablo included"
>>
>> My thoughts (almost) exactly!  Thanks Zelimir.
>>
>> As to Greg's suggestion, the only bulletin that comes up after I looked, 
>> as Anne mentioned lists the official name as Oum Dreyga in MB89 and 
>> mentions in the description, "Fragments have been sold under the names 
>> Amgala and Gor Lefcah."  That is the reference as to why it is a 
>> "synonym" on line.  Simply because fragments of Oum Dreyga have been sold 
>> as those two names.
>>
>> Perhaps listing them for sale on eBay as Gor Lefcah (or Amgala) is 
>> considered "adhering to the highest standards of meteorite identification 
>> and proper labeling practices," but I amicably disagree.  If my 
>> assumptions are mistaken, and the MetSoc guidelines support this, I will 
>> proceed to relabel all of my meteorites with the names I like better that 
>> are synonyms and talk about them as such.
>>
>> This gets to Greg's interesting comment on whether a meteorite is named 
>> where it starts being recovered or where most falls when given these 
>> options.  I would think the main mass is the most logical, but these are 
>> decisions for the NomCom as the competent governing body and probably 
>> open to comment before publication by interested parties.
>>
>> It is important to realize that a significant amount of pride comes to 
>> many towns and villages when a meteorite is named after their population. 
>> There are many meteorites published in previous bulletins that chose one 
>> name over another for considerations like Greg's, and this does make some 
>> people feeling left out, especially when not much else is is on the list 
>> of attractions.  I could mention a long list in less affluent countries, 
>> but I think the Haviland/Greenburg/Brenham situation illustrates this 
>> fine given the community pride there.
>>
>> Best wishes and great health,
>> Doug
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>
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