[meteorite-list] INTERVIEW WITH CARANCAS LOCALS

Fri Oct 19 19:04:32 EDT 2007

Hi Dough,

thanks. There's just one thing with the people, I did not explain clearly, so this is my fault. I want to distinguish between the people of Carancas (Aymara), who live as farmers and were very friendly to me and also very clever...they knew what they were selling - and *some* people in Desaguadero (possibly Aymara as well) who were seeking their fortune in drinking and in trying to squeeze the money out of me. Unfortunately, I arrived in Desag at 2 a.m. and had to spent quite some hours with the local youth, and this was definitively not my very best time... But since I know the bars in Desag, I know the word "filthy" better than before! 

Greets,

Jan

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: "mexicodoug" <mexicodoug at aol.com>
> Gesendet: 20.10.07 00:41:15
> An:         <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] INTERVIEW WITH CARANCAS LOCALS

> 
> Hi Jan,
> 
> No problem at all, I just think this is too complicated than most are 
> willing to realize, including poverty as I have been reminded as well, and 
> the framework under which the list as a group (we can't single out anyone in 
> particular as we are in this together) has painted of the locality.  hah! as 
> if these problems of corruption were unique to this little corner of the 
> world, right.
> 
> I had no problem with your post, but its content suggested * to me * a 
> slight double standard, that is all, nothing personal.  Most people on this 
> list say what they mean in an unadulterated fashion as you already saw and 
> most of us are all too familiar with.
> 
> I would never blame the Aymara for anything, * especially * for not being 
> themselves.  This, by the way, includes not running to the crater and 
> pushing everyone else out of the way to get their God-given endowment, and 
> then not feeling envious, etc. of those who did.  So please reconsider your 
> thinking about anything being their fault.  I could be wrong, but these are 
> probably not part of their cultural upbringings, schooled or not, and they 
> deserve our respect for that.  They certainly have mine.
> 
> I don't have any qualms with calling a dirty place: dirty, either, and I am 
> sure there are a long list of reasons that have caused this. As far as the 
> "lost value" you mention, this is an even more complicated question that 
> makes my head hurt, my best solution would be to crack open Porter and to 
> say it looks like I will never have the opportunity to possess this 
> meteorite.
> 
> Porter aside, it reminds me of a Sufi story I heard as a tyke.
> Mulla Nasarudin saw a group of men (possibly horsemen or soldiers), he 
> panicked and found a pit jumped down to hide inside, and worried terribly 
> what that would do to him.  Unfortunately for him, he began shaking, as he 
> did not escape their notice.  They hastily came over, from above the pit one 
> voice yelled down as he was terrorized, "Sir, what ön earth are you doing 
> down there? The Mulla answered, That, my friend, is not a simple question. 
> I am here because you are there ... I wish I could see the text of this 
> wonderful tale somewhere ...
> 
> Best health, and above all WELCOME, and thanks for your perspectives as 
> well!
> And for putting up with my ramblings,
> 
> Doug
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jan Hattenbach" <jan.hattenbach at web.de>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "mexicodoug" <mexicodoug at aol.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 4:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] INTERVIEW WITH CARANCAS LOCALS
> 
> 
> Hi Dough, list,
> 
> yes, I understand that the list may have got a rather negative impression of 
> Peru due to these very ugly experience Mike and his colleagues had to 
> encounter. I live in Peru and visited Desaguadero and Carancas myself and 
> had to make some bad experience too with people trying to rip me off there. 
> It was not quite as dangerous as it was for Mike because I kept myself in 
> the background. After reading Mikes report, I was glad I did so. And, like 
> it or not, Desaguadero *is* a filthy place.
> 
> Nevertheless, remember Mikes report, it was not the townspeople of Carancas 
> he had his problems with. It was the corrupt police of Desaguadero - and 
> corruption really is perhaps the biggest problem of this country. The people 
> of Carancas were trying the best they could from this unique incident, who 
> could blame them for that?
> 
> Maybe some folks in Desaquadero are now beginning to realize what 
> opportunity they missed. There was a stone with a value more than gold 
> falling from the sky, and who got it? Some US-Americans, some guys from 
> Bolivia and a German! But that is their own fault. Why couldn't the same 
> people who did what they could to get as much money out of me (I had a nice 
> little fight in spanish - words only) use their energy to get that stones 
> that were lying around for a week just before their noses, and make money 
> out of them? Call it lack of education or whatever, but it is sad to say: if 
> no strangers would have gone there, most of the meteorites may have just 
> been thrown away! The news was in the media in Peru for days, and they do 
> have TV, radio, internet and newspapers and are able to use it, if they 
> like. Most people here did know what happened.
> 
> It is a shame what happened to Mike, and it is a even bigger shame for Peru 
> what is happening to the (presumed) main mass, but there is still no reason 
> to insult the people of this town or country in general. It's rather 
> something to think about what is going wrong in this world.
> 
> BTW: I am new to this list and I appeciate the interresting information and 
> opinions I found here! Thanks a lot for that!
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Jan
> 
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: "mexicodoug" <mexicodoug at aol.com>
> > Gesendet: 19.10.07 20:37:20
> > An: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] INTERVIEW WITH CARANCAS LOCALS
> 
> 
> >
> > Hi David, Bob and Jan, List,
> >
> > David - There has been a cold war going on down there to define who has
> > rights to market alcoholic drinks called "Pisco" (If you don't think this 
> > is
> > important - very seriously-, think again!!!), and the fight for control
> > portions of the sea between Peru and Chile is still ablating.  It isn't 
> > the
> > village that is of interest.  It is the fight for land and sea, and 
> > national
> > pride.  The land of the Desaguadero River where the fall is, is near the
> > outlet to the ocean that Chile appropriated in war victory against
> > Bolivia/Peru and I suspect that unofficial military activities are common 
> > in
> > that zone, as well as a state of alert on both sides, and also that there 
> > is
> > an underlying fear from this.  As outsiders from this conflict, the best 
> > we
> > can imagine...
> >
> > Jan - As you say (most of us including you could) think before we post, 
> > too,
> > though I don't object to your post either.  The very few prior comments 
> > you
> > have made seem very educated, so I really wonder, why hadn't you said
> > anything throughout the barrage of bashing of people, corruption and the
> > "filth" there, and now not expect that this impression is prevalent and
> > accepted by a lot of list members?  This is an exotic and majestic area to
> > visit, though lacking in hygene by the cultural standards of many 
> > outsiders.
> > The list has been fixated on the negative and a meteoric attention span.
> > Why don't you ask what Bob Haag about his recent vacation in the wonderful
> > area, he probably has seen enough in his life to give a different
> > perspective on their hygene and culture.
> >
> > Bob W. - David off the list?  Eighty-six that possee!
> >
> > Best wishes and health,
> > Doug
> >
> > Aborigines don't own the land.They belong to it. It's like their mother. 
> > See
> > those rocks? Been standing there for 600 million years. Still be there 
> > when
> > you and I are gone. So arguing over who owns them is like two fleas 
> > arguing
> > over who owns the dog they live on.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "David Weir" <dgweir at earthlink.net>
> > To: "Bob WALKER" <qwalkra2 at optusnet.com.au>
> > Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 9:53 AM
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] INTERVIEW WITH CARANCAS LOCALS
> >
> >
> > > If Art removes me I'll be happy to leave. It's people like you who make 
> > > me
> > > vomit all over this "LIST". And don't ever visit my website which 
> > > contains
> > > a quarter of a million words bringing the most current meteorite 
> > > research
> > > to those interested, including total morons like you. You are hereby
> > > forbidden to visit it. I do not want to contribute anything else to this
> > > LIST or to you, you small-brained idiot. Kiss my ass!
> > >
> > > David
> > > ______________________________________________
> > > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > >
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> 
> 
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