[meteorite-list] INTERVIEW WITH CARANCAS LOCALS

Fri Oct 19 18:40:33 EDT 2007

Hi Jan,

No problem at all, I just think this is too complicated than most are 
willing to realize, including poverty as I have been reminded as well, and 
the framework under which the list as a group (we can't single out anyone in 
particular as we are in this together) has painted of the locality.  hah! as 
if these problems of corruption were unique to this little corner of the 
world, right.

I had no problem with your post, but its content suggested * to me * a 
slight double standard, that is all, nothing personal.  Most people on this 
list say what they mean in an unadulterated fashion as you already saw and 
most of us are all too familiar with.

I would never blame the Aymara for anything, * especially * for not being 
themselves.  This, by the way, includes not running to the crater and 
pushing everyone else out of the way to get their God-given endowment, and 
then not feeling envious, etc. of those who did.  So please reconsider your 
thinking about anything being their fault.  I could be wrong, but these are 
probably not part of their cultural upbringings, schooled or not, and they 
deserve our respect for that.  They certainly have mine.

I don't have any qualms with calling a dirty place: dirty, either, and I am 
sure there are a long list of reasons that have caused this. As far as the 
"lost value" you mention, this is an even more complicated question that 
makes my head hurt, my best solution would be to crack open Porter and to 
say it looks like I will never have the opportunity to possess this 
meteorite.

Porter aside, it reminds me of a Sufi story I heard as a tyke.
Mulla Nasarudin saw a group of men (possibly horsemen or soldiers), he 
panicked and found a pit jumped down to hide inside, and worried terribly 
what that would do to him.  Unfortunately for him, he began shaking, as he 
did not escape their notice.  They hastily came over, from above the pit one 
voice yelled down as he was terrorized, "Sir, what ön earth are you doing 
down there? The Mulla answered, That, my friend, is not a simple question. 
I am here because you are there ... I wish I could see the text of this 
wonderful tale somewhere ...

Best health, and above all WELCOME, and thanks for your perspectives as 
well!
And for putting up with my ramblings,

Doug

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jan Hattenbach" <jan.hattenbach at web.de>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "mexicodoug" <mexicodoug at aol.com>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] INTERVIEW WITH CARANCAS LOCALS

Hi Dough, list,

yes, I understand that the list may have got a rather negative impression of 
Peru due to these very ugly experience Mike and his colleagues had to 
encounter. I live in Peru and visited Desaguadero and Carancas myself and 
had to make some bad experience too with people trying to rip me off there. 
It was not quite as dangerous as it was for Mike because I kept myself in 
the background. After reading Mikes report, I was glad I did so. And, like 
it or not, Desaguadero *is* a filthy place.

Nevertheless, remember Mikes report, it was not the townspeople of Carancas 
he had his problems with. It was the corrupt police of Desaguadero - and 
corruption really is perhaps the biggest problem of this country. The people 
of Carancas were trying the best they could from this unique incident, who 
could blame them for that?

Maybe some folks in Desaquadero are now beginning to realize what 
opportunity they missed. There was a stone with a value more than gold 
falling from the sky, and who got it? Some US-Americans, some guys from 
Bolivia and a German! But that is their own fault. Why couldn't the same 
people who did what they could to get as much money out of me (I had a nice 
little fight in spanish - words only) use their energy to get that stones 
that were lying around for a week just before their noses, and make money 
out of them? Call it lack of education or whatever, but it is sad to say: if 
no strangers would have gone there, most of the meteorites may have just 
been thrown away! The news was in the media in Peru for days, and they do 
have TV, radio, internet and newspapers and are able to use it, if they 
like. Most people here did know what happened.

It is a shame what happened to Mike, and it is a even bigger shame for Peru 
what is happening to the (presumed) main mass, but there is still no reason 
to insult the people of this town or country in general. It's rather 
something to think about what is going wrong in this world.

BTW: I am new to this list and I appeciate the interresting information and 
opinions I found here! Thanks a lot for that!

Best regards,

Jan

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: "mexicodoug" <mexicodoug at aol.com>
> Gesendet: 19.10.07 20:37:20
> An: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] INTERVIEW WITH CARANCAS LOCALS

>
> Hi David, Bob and Jan, List,
>
> David - There has been a cold war going on down there to define who has
> rights to market alcoholic drinks called "Pisco" (If you don't think this 
> is
> important - very seriously-, think again!!!), and the fight for control
> portions of the sea between Peru and Chile is still ablating.  It isn't 
> the
> village that is of interest.  It is the fight for land and sea, and 
> national
> pride.  The land of the Desaguadero River where the fall is, is near the
> outlet to the ocean that Chile appropriated in war victory against
> Bolivia/Peru and I suspect that unofficial military activities are common 
> in
> that zone, as well as a state of alert on both sides, and also that there 
> is
> an underlying fear from this.  As outsiders from this conflict, the best 
> we
> can imagine...
>
> Jan - As you say (most of us including you could) think before we post, 
> too,
> though I don't object to your post either.  The very few prior comments 
> you
> have made seem very educated, so I really wonder, why hadn't you said
> anything throughout the barrage of bashing of people, corruption and the
> "filth" there, and now not expect that this impression is prevalent and
> accepted by a lot of list members?  This is an exotic and majestic area to
> visit, though lacking in hygene by the cultural standards of many 
> outsiders.
> The list has been fixated on the negative and a meteoric attention span.
> Why don't you ask what Bob Haag about his recent vacation in the wonderful
> area, he probably has seen enough in his life to give a different
> perspective on their hygene and culture.
>
> Bob W. - David off the list?  Eighty-six that possee!
>
> Best wishes and health,
> Doug
>
> Aborigines don't own the land.They belong to it. It's like their mother. 
> See
> those rocks? Been standing there for 600 million years. Still be there 
> when
> you and I are gone. So arguing over who owns them is like two fleas 
> arguing
> over who owns the dog they live on.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Weir" <dgweir at earthlink.net>
> To: "Bob WALKER" <qwalkra2 at optusnet.com.au>
> Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 9:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] INTERVIEW WITH CARANCAS LOCALS
>
>
> > If Art removes me I'll be happy to leave. It's people like you who make 
> > me
> > vomit all over this "LIST". And don't ever visit my website which 
> > contains
> > a quarter of a million words bringing the most current meteorite 
> > research
> > to those interested, including total morons like you. You are hereby
> > forbidden to visit it. I do not want to contribute anything else to this
> > LIST or to you, you small-brained idiot. Kiss my ass!
> >
> > David
> > ______________________________________________
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
>
> ______________________________________________
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>

_______________________________________________________________________
Jetzt neu! Schützen Sie Ihren PC mit McAfee und WEB.DE. 3 Monate
kostenlos testen. http://www.pc-sicherheit.web.de/startseite/?mc=022220

______________________________________________
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list