[meteorite-list] Larry's Holbrook Holy Grail Find and BobHaag's Venus Stone

[DNAndrews]

Jason Utas wrote:

> Hello All,
> There are a few things that separate Adamana from Holbrook in my mind...
> The texture of the crust alone of Adamana versus that of Holbrook 
> leaves me little doubt that the two could possibly be paired.

Hi Jason,
I think you meant to say that "the two could NOT possibly be paired?  
Not trying to argue, just think a few points need to be said.

> The fusion crust of Adamana is a matte black, which contrasts sharply 
> with the crust of recently found Holbrooks, which exhibit a typically 
> blue/black almost shiny crust in most cases, often liberally spread 
> with rust spots.
> The interior tells the same story - Adamana is a uniform brown, with 
> chondrules poking out here and there.  Recently found Holbrooks tend 
> to be less weathered internally, if not more externally, and their 
> dark chondrules contrast starkly with the lighter matrix, creating a 
> much more heterogeneous appearance than that of Adamana.

If indeed the Adamana meteorite is the front piece of the Holbrook, and 
I'm NOT saying it is, then it would have the thickest primary crust out 
of any other portion of the fall.  There are pictures of original finds 
that have chondrules as much as 5-7 mm in diameter. Also, one has to 
keep in mind that it was found in a horse corral.  I'm sure acidic horse 
urine and different soil conditions could have some kind of effect on it 
as well...IF it was.  I'm just saying that I for one, am not quite ready 
to throw the "half-baked" theory in the trash....yet.

> The location of the find....
> Fifteen miles is simply impossible, unless it was artificially 
> transported.

Actually, the Adamana Meteorite was found 11 miles from Arntz (aka 
Aztec).  Not quite all the way to Adamana which is 13 miles "as the 
meteor flies".  (I did some remeasuring).  And, if the Goodwater theory 
is correct, then you are only talking about 4 miles.  According to the 
July 26, 1912 article on the Holbrook Argus: "There was a heavy 
explosion similar to that of a heavy blast followed by a fuscillade of 
smaller explosions which terminated in a thunder-like rumble of 
approximately two minutes in duration."  In Warren Foote's Preliminary 
Notes of the July 19, 1912 Meteoric Fall at Aztec, Arizona, he writes:  
"It was heard in Concho, St. Joseph, Woodruff, and Pinedale, some 40 
miles away.  One large explosion was quickly followed by several small 
ones in rapid succession." 

>   The mapped strewnfield was roughly one mile long by a half mile wide.

Now it's more like 3 miles long by 1 mile wide and growing.  Even Warren 
Foote mentions this dimension in 1912.

>   The largest stone recovered, weighing in at ~14.5 lbs, was found at 
> the end of this ellipse.

Hmmm....I've never heard that before.  I'd like to know where you 
read/heard that information as that is interesting to me.  According to 
Foote:  "The large and small stones, according to all answers received, 
were said to be indiscriminately spread over the ground, without regard 
to size. The violent disruptions near Holbrook might account for the 
lack of such a separation...."

>   The possibility that anything made it farther than this stone is great -

In recent years, say the last 40, the larger finds that I know of have 
been about in the center of the known field and on both sides of the 
tracks.  I and others have found many smaller ones further north and 
east of these larger stones.  I would like to know where the main mass 
was found, but I've never been able to dig that up yet.  However, I've 
never read or heard anywhere that it was found at the furthest point of 
the field. 

> it wouldn't surprise me too greatly if a 20lber was found another 
> quarter of a mile on (it could've buried itself on impact, etc), but 
> to say that a smaller stone continued another fifteen miles beyond the 
> known end of the strewnfield is simply ridiculous,

With all the numerous explosions, why not another 11 miles?  Some parts 
must have still been ablating after the main explosion to have more 
explosions.  At say, 7 miles per second (just as an aribitrary figure), 
it wouldn't take long to cover that distance.  There is still quite a 
bit of material still missing off of Haag's aerodynamic piece too.  But, 
certainly not enough to make it come close to being the main mass. 

> to say nothing of the fact that it is much too far north to even 
> be near the same path as the body that created the Holbrook strewnfield.

Huh?  In the Holbrook Argus article, it states: "The sky was lightly 
overcast with patches of high floating clouds, but immediately after the 
explosion a smoky trail similar to the smoke of an automobile's exhaust 
was visible.  The trail disappeared in a LITTLE NORTH of east in 
direction."  Well, Arntz is ENE of Holbrook and Adamana is ENE of 
Arntz.  The strewn field and the railroad tracks are in a ENE 
orientation.  Drawing a line from Holbrook through Arntz takes you right 
to Adamana....in fact, this line can possibly go a little bit north of 
what is shown as Adamana on a topo map.  (next to the railroad tracks 
where the propane plant is).

Anyway, I just feel more investigating needs to be done to make a 
decision whether "yea" or "nay" on the subject.  Maybe Bob will someday 
have a little crumb analyzed for curiousities sake or someone will make 
another find well outside of the known strewn field.

Respectfully,
Dave