[meteorite-list] OFF TOPIC the ugly weathered chondrite AD? DISGUISED?

[Michael L Blood]

Well spoken,
        Jason.
        Michael

on 8/5/07 3:27 AM, Jason Utas at meteoritekid at gmail.com wrote:

> Hello Martin, All,
> 
> And what I say to that is that even if anyone says a most rude and
> foul thing, if you decide to pretend that you have any right to
> chastise them, you should do so in a courteous manner.
> 
> In this case, list policy would require whoever dislikes Steve's posts
> enough to complain to take it off-list immediately by talking directly
> to Art or Steve without telling me (and the other 600 blokes and gals
> tuning in) about it.  My main purpose here isn't to defend Steve's
> posts, even though I find it possible using the list rules to do so in
> a rather prevalent manner.
> 
> My main purpose is to hopefully get all of this rubbish off of the
> list for good (it's a long shot, I know, but no one else seems to want
> to say anything publicly (thanks for the support, of you who sent it).
> 
> No.  What I've told you all several times now is that posting a
> response to Steve whether on-list or not doesn't get him to stop
> posting.  You can send and send all you want, and the only end result
> is more emails in everyone else's inbox.  More attacks from the
> anti-Steves, more apologetic or possibly angry posts from Steve, and
> the same number of AD's and giveaways and other posts in between.
> 
> It doesn't help your cause to send the emails to the list.  Get that.
> Yes, what Steve's doing may or may not be discourteous.  It may or may
> not be downright insulting.  I refuse to judge, seeing as I know that
> I have only an educated guess at his intentions for posting based on
> what little I've seen of him.  That said, the general idea explored so
> far, the use of the list to bash him, is something that I find
> downright insulting as a list-member.  You can hate him all you want,
> and I'm sure a good few of you do, not to mention countless other
> people probably including me to some degree right now.  But you
> shouldn't use the list to express this.
> 
> And you don't openly attack me.  You don't openly attack anyone else.
> And the reason for this is because it's downright nasty.  It's a clear
> violation of list rules; emails sent to the list with the intent to
> cause emotional harm to Steve in the hope that he will stop posting.
> Other people are more eloquent in their defence, better skilled to
> deal with such open verbal shamings, and hence you don't do it to
> them.  Also, Steve appears to have taken on the ever-present list role
> of the scapegoat, which one person has always seemed to hold for some
> period of time, until his or her replacement (probably just 'his' at
> this point - I can't remember a girl having taken up the mantle yet)
> has come along to take their place.  As such, he has received rather
> sparse defence up to this point.
> 
> I've just had enough of this.  If you have a problem with him, take
> the high road and deal with it in a civilized manner.  I don't know
> what he'll do in response, but if you do act in such a way, your own
> claims will take on a more legitimate tone and you might actually get
> somewhere (no matter how many list-members agree with you [or
> disagree], they still can't do anything - it's up to Art).
> You aren't going to persuade Steve to stop by asking him.  People have
> tried literally for years.  It 'ain't gunna work.'
> 
> If you'd like to contact Art, don't post to the list - use the
> meteorite-central address and contact him directly.  Yes, I'm mildly
> annoyed by Steve's posts, which are often...less than enlightening.
> That said, blatant personal attacks should have a lesser place
> than...those sorts of posts....on the list, don't you agree?
> 
> "Tonight I am taking out my lovely wife to
> dinner, it is her birthday to day.So after a 9 hour day,I am going to
> enjoy a 3 day weekend and enjoy myself.1 week till mazatlan,mexico.Again
> thanks to all who support me."
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> "Time to throw this ass off of the list.  I will donate
> $10- to the Greensburg Relief fund if this clown does
> not offer to sell or give away this crap witin the
> next month."
> 
> Anti-Steve
> 
> - Which do you see as worse?  For me there is a clear difference
> between the two, and in my opinion, only one of these people has
> intentions that warrant their being removed from this list.  Also,
> note the misspelling in Don's post ;)
> Unlike my last email, I think his was short enough for his email
> provider's spell check function to still work properly.  Shame it
> didn't.
> 
> Now, if you forgive me, I have a most busy several days coming up, as
> if the last few weren't fun enough.  I daresay I'll ill-advisedly take
> time out to answer emails, but I really do feel like resting the ol'
> noggin for a bit.
> 
> Oh - and does anyone have any main masses laying about?
> A new iron would be nice...any new NWA's (...or of course non NWA's) out
> there?
> 
> Toodles,
> 
> Jason
> 
> 
> On 8/5/07, Martin Altmann <altmann at meteorite-martin.de> wrote:
>> Jason,
>> 
>> Rule 2)  Be COURTEOUS ...
>> 
>> Well, if somebody empties out his garbage can every day in front of your
>> door and you and your neighbours ask that person frequently not to do so,
>> but despite he's promising to keep his trash in future, he continues...
>> 
>> I'm perhaps to old-fashioned - but that behaviour I wouldn't call
>> "courteous" and I have difficulties to find another interpretation...
>> 
>> Martin
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jason
>> Utas
>> Gesendet: Sonntag, 5. August 2007 00:46
>> An: Meteorite-list
>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] the ugly weathered chondrite AD? DISGUISED?
>> 
>> Hello Marcin, Dirk, Don, All,
>> 
>> I, too, am fed up with these posts, but feel obliged to point out that
>> the list policies (copied here from the meteoritecentral page) read as
>> follow:
>> 
>> General List Policies
>> 
>> 1) Posts need to relate -in some way- to meteorites
>> 2) Be courteous and professional at all times
>> 3) Please include the 'subject' of the post in the subject box
>> 4) Send emails in text format, not -HTML-
>> 5) Do not send emails with -file attachments- to the list - include a file
>> link
>> 6) Make sure you can back up statements with -facts and references-
>> 7) Do not post -major advertisement- emails to the list- include a 'sale'
>> link
>> 8) If you are posting a URL for a sale, include 'SALE' in the subject box
>> 
>> To break these down....
>> 
>> 1) Posts need to relate -in some way- to meteorites
>> 
>> - Steve has generally stuck to this rule.  There have been a few
>> indiscretions, but I recall a number of list members posting
>> completely unrelated things such as, well,  vacation pictures and
>> pottery made by their children, not to mention other things...don't
>> hold double standards.
>> 
>> 2) Be courteous and professional at all times
>> 
>> - Open to interpretation.  I would not call Steve's posts
>> professional, but then again, there are far less-professional people
>> on the list who I will not name.  I would like to note that the people
>> who publicly attack his posts, in my opinion, fall into this category.
>> 
>> 3) Please include the 'subject' of the post in the subject box
>> 
>> - Steve generally sticks to this - I know you guys and gals get all
>> riled up about the "AD" bit in the subject line, but that's later.
>> 
>> 4) Send emails in text format, not -HTML-
>> 
>> - Is this really a problem?  Posts get delayed if sent in this format,
>> but I don't know if it makes Art do more work...better just follow it,
>> which I think Steve does.
>> 
>> 5) Do not send emails with -file attachments- to the list - include a file
>> link
>> 
>> - A number of people have been sending attachments lately.  This does
>> not include Steve.
>> 
>> 6) Make sure you can back up statements with -facts and references-
>> 
>> - Hmmm...I'm going to have to say that Matteo rather annoyed me with
>> his post that stated that I, as a meteorite hunter here in California,
>> take NWA's and seed the desert here with them.  But that's neither
>> here nor there...Steve hasn't done this, as far as I know.  Yes, he
>> said he wouldn't post to the list as much, but it's not a list policy
>> 'not to lie' - I know for a fact that people do it on here all the
>> time, and in fact, the majority of the lying on-list is probably done
>> by a few of the dealers held in the very highest regard.  Again,
>> neither here nor there...at least Steve's intentions don't appear to
>> be blatantly malevolent, as do some of the other posts that I see on
>> here, with nine years of background knowledge behind them...
>> 
>> 7) Do not post -major advertisement- emails to the list- include a 'sale'
>> link
>> 
>> - Hasn't been a problem with Steve.
>> 
>> 8) If you are posting a URL for a sale, include 'SALE' in the subject box
>> 
>> - Well, this is different, isn't it.  I guess there is a sort of an
>> "AD" rule, but most list members break it by not posting "SALE" in the
>> subject line.  Most of you put "AD" in there instead.  Neither of you
>> (very general plural 'you') follow the letter of the law.
>> 
>> 
>> Ok, ok, I know - this must be very annoying, my saying this, but I
>> think you should think about this for a minute.
>> 
>> 
>> There are a good number of you who hate Steve.  This is commonly known.
>> You detest all of his posts: sales, giveaways, requests, exclamations
>> of a specimen arriving, whatever they may be, you just complain and
>> seem to get pretty generally riled-up.
>> 
>> Why do you still read them?  I stopped long ago, when they started to
>> get annoying.
>> 
>> You guys make it sound as though you opened his last post expecting to
>> find some gem of great intellectual or scientific importance, and upon
>> opening it, found an add.
>> 
>> Are you that stupid?
>> 
>> I'm really quite sorry, but if you are, I think it should be you
>> leaving the list and not him.
>> It's called a delete-button.  If your email doesn't have one of them,
>> I'll give you double whatever you pay per month for your email service
>> to switch to a free email that does have one of those nifty little
>> things.
>> 
>> So...
>> It's not more than an hour or so after Steve has made his initial post
>> and there are no fewer than three (3) angry (well, it's really 2 angry
>> and one more reasonable)  responses, one of which contains an
>> expletive aimed at Steve.
>> (That's really quite professional of you, Don, see list policy number
>> 2, which you just, in my opinion, broke.)
>> I'd have to say thank you for proving my point.  I have four spam
>> messages where I would only have had one.  Thank you, all of you.
>> Your posts, I'm sure, are going to get Steve to stop his posts
>> forever.
>> 
>> And if you have something to say to Art, I daresay this fellow -
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>> mailto: listman at meteoritecentral.com
>> 
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> 
>> ( ^ this is Art's ~supersecret~ email address, just as I found it on
>> the list-guidelines page, ~one click~ off of the meteoritecentral
>> ~main page~  :D
>> 
>> [I know it's not your fault Marcin - I know English isn't your first
>> language, and I recognize that my negotiating French websites, even
>> though I've taken four years of the language in school, and can speak
>> it reasonably well, would be highly pragmatic.  Don and Dirk on the
>> other hand.....wow.]
>> 
>> So as I was saying, I wish the fellow who answers to the email I put
>> above will somehow console you, because, as much as I'm sure the other
>> 600 people on this list love to hear you ramble about ~your~
>> grievances regarding ~your~ having misplaced ~your~ delete button, I
>> do not.
>> 
>> Jason
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 8/4/07, PolandMET <marcin at polandmet.com> wrote:
>>>> STEVE, Is this an AD disguised as a question as you
>>>> often do?  ADs REQUIRE AD: IN THE SUBJECT HEADING!
>>>> FOLLOW THE RULES AND YOUR OWN WORDS ABOUT POSTING ADs,
>>>> GIVEAWAYS, ETC. THAT YOU PROMISED TO THE LIST STARTING
>>>> WAY BACK IN 2002!  IT APPEARS THAT YOU INTEND TO SELL
>>>> IT; DON`T YOU?
>>> 
>>> Oh comone Dirk.
>>> This guy dont listen and think we are more stupid than he is.
>>> 
>>> I appel again (to Mr ART)
>>> This list need real admin/moderator. Otherwise this spam continue. Steve
>>> spam and answers spam to Steve spam. Not matter if Steve is nice guy or
>> how
>>> many list members love his spam emails. Steve frequently broke this list
>>> rules and should be punished for that otherwise persons (dealers) who
>> comply
>>> with them looks like stupid noobs. I dont like to be a noob.
>>> 
>>> I know, to be moderator is not easy work, and kicking someone ass in small
>>> community like this one not bring glory, but In my modest opinion We all
>>> must comply with our rules or lets do there Wild West and another valuable
>>> persons will leave like happend before.
>>> 
>>> We are not children and Steve is also not a kid so or he will stop
>> advertise
>>> every single gram of his chondrites or he should be kicked from list for
>>> week, month or forever. This is normall on every forum where admins work
>>> preperly. And dont say that I can press DEL key easy. Every crime should
>> get
>>> his payback. Spam is one of the biggest problem in internet at present
>> time.
>>> But many peoples dont know this becouse they easy accept that 9 of 10
>> emails
>>> they receiving is only viagra, medicine, p***s enlargement, warez
>> software,
>>> gold and diamonds in tons or millions of dollars waiting for our bank
>>> accounts.
>>> 
>>> I dont want to be like a angry bee, but this situation was ridiculous
>> months
>>> ago, and become insane now. We say stop do this Steve, he apologize and do
>>> the same next hour, day by day, week by week.
>>> 
>>> Are You guyz really soo interested reading all the time about next Gao he
>>> have or next giveaway or that he need information how much cost 1gram of
>>> Sikhote Alin ???? Looks like this is more interested than new classified
>>> achondrites or Mike trips becouse only few persons frequently try to stop
>>> this spam, from few hundreds of persons subscribed.
>>> 
>>> I say: Stop all bullshit on that list. Spam and personal fights, becouse I
>>> want learn more about meteorites.
>>> 
>>> I really like to know Art's email (anyone?), to forward him my email.
>> Maybe
>>> if more persons, who think like me and Dirk,  forward him their own
>> opinions
>>> and feelings, maybe he will change "something", the same as he do before
>>> (list history topic).
>>> 
>>> -----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]-----
>>> http://www.Meteoryt.net             marcin at meteoryt.net
>>> http://www.PolandMET.com       marcin at polandmet.com
>>> http://www.Gao-Guenie.com      GSM +48(607)535 195
>>> --------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]--------
>>> 
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>> 
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