[meteorite-list] In search of a hammer
E.P. Grondine
epgrondine at yahoo.com
Sun Apr 15 09:40:15 EDT 2007
Well, Sterling,
and here we thought that science was being influenced
by politics today...
good hunting,
Ed
--- meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Ensisheim 2007 info (Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr)
> 2. Ensisheim 2007 show info
> (Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr)
> 3. In search of a hammer (E.P. Grondine)
> 4. AD iron-meteorite elemente set (Andreas Gren)
> 5. In search of a hammer - correction of de
> divinatione date
> (E.P. Grondine)
> 6. TEST -- DELETE PLEASE (Sterling K. Webb)
> 7. Re: Ensisheim 2007 info (PolandMET)
> 8. LOCATION of a hammer (Sterling K. Webb)
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 20:30:04 +0200
> From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2007 info
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Cc: ".Gabelica"@uha.fr
> Message-ID:
>
<20070414203004.3loobhp9qcggwo8s at w3mail.univ-mulhouse.fr>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> DelSp="Yes";
> format="flowed"
>
> Dear List,
>
> The circular describing the 8th international
> meteorite show ?
> Ensisheim 2007 ? is ready. You can find it at the
> following web site
> (from next Monday April 16 on):
> http://meteorite.ensisheim.free
> I can also provide the circular (in English or
> French) by mail, on request.
>
> The main characteristics/changes/warnings? of the
> 2007 editions are
> (among) the following:
>
> Dates:
> June 16 and 17, 2007 (week-end preceding the St
> Marie mineral show).
> Friday 15 is the ?dealers day?.
>
> 2007 theme:
> Meteorites: weird shapes, internal beauties.
> Illustrated by a dual lecture on Saturday by Z.
> Gabelica (?odd
> morphologies??) & R. Warin (?Thin sections: open
> windows to
> cosmology?) as well as by the usual permanent
> thematic exhibit:
> ?meteorite samples involving unusual external shapes
> and strange
> sections? from private collections??
> (btw: we still need samples for display. Please
> contact me off list).
> Alain Carion will exhibit in a side-window of the
> museum, in preview,
> a fragment of the new French meteorite
> ?Saint-Ouen-en-Champagne?. This
> is our ?wild card??
>
> On Sunday, Nico Mettler (Winterthur, CH) will
> describe his recent
> 1000+ km expedition through the Great Sand Sea
> desert (Lybia-Egypt) in
> search for Lybian Desert Glass (LDG) samples,
> through a lecture
> entitled ?LDG: a quest for an enigma?.
> The Regency walls will be decorated by original
> drawings of our young
> artists, featuring ?Meteorite hunting in hot
> deserts? (a contest).
>
> Friday PARTY:
> As in 2006 a dinner-party (absolutely unavoidable!)
> is again scheduled
> on Friday June 15 (from 19:00) at ?La Couronne?
> hotel, in their
> outside resort (as in 2006, we have asked the
> weather to co-operate...).
> Party can end any time.
> Two special meals are proposed, 25 euro, everything
> included, except
> beverage (hey, if beverage were included, bankrupt
> of ?La Couronne?
> guaranteed!).
> Everybody (organizers, dealers, close friends,
> ?loose? friends,
> relatives, related?) attending (or not) the
> enthroning ceremonies and
> the ?friendly drink? that follows (Friday late
> afternoon, about
> 18:00), is welcome!
> Fun guaranteed! (Ask the 70+ last year
> participants!).
> And ask for a wake-up call if you don?t want to miss
> the start of the
> ?meteorite hot rush? the next morning?
>
> Other meals:
> Saturday and Sunday lunches (served at ?La
> Couronne?) and the Saturday
> dinner (traditional ?roasted wild boar? served on
> the main ?dancing?
> square) will now be prepared by the team of cooks
> from ?La Couronne?.
> Friendly prices (17.5 euro for a complete menu) were
> negotiated.
> If you want the special vintage ?Ensisheim-Meteorite
> 1492? Pinot Gris
> to accompany your meals, it can be permanently
> available at its tag
> price.
>
> The Guardians Confraternity is still permanently
> providing all other
> traditional snacks, including the very popular
> ?tarte flamb?e?
> (alsacian pie), all served outside, on the main
> square (or inside the
> sun-protected tent, - rain is neither invited nor
> envisaged).
> All the other activities on the main square (beer,
> wine sale, beer,
> tee shirts, beer?) are maintained.
>
> Accomodation:
> Besides the 3 traditional hotels (Couronne,
> Niemerich, Cheval Blanc),
> the brand new hotel ?Le Domaine du Moulin? is now
> open. It has the ?La
> Couronne? standard (4 stars) and is as close to the
> "Regency" (200 m ?
> or more, depending on how thirsty you were during
> the parties?).
> I haven?t visited it yet but heard that a double
> room, breakfast
> included, costs around 70-75 euro, a reasonable
> price even with the
> stronger euro).
>
> 5 new ?brothers?.
> This year, Anne Black (US), Reiner Bartoschewitz (D,
> Gifhorn
> organizer) & wife, Alex Seidel (D) and Serge
> Neunlist (F, our
> university president and?new meteorite lover) will
> become the new
> Guardians.
> (Gosh, I have the feeling having forgotten someone?)
>
> What is maintained in 2007:
> Table prices, entrance fee (4 euro for adults),
> table number (limited
> to 55) and their positions in rooms, reservation
> procedure (just write
> me!) and contacts. Also?Marcin?s cutting saw on the
> main square.
> And the FUNNY (crazy ?) characteristic and ever
> smiling ambience, of course!
>
> What is not maintained:
> Just meteorites sold in 2006.
> Thus much, much new and hot (or cold!) stuff! I bet
> some of the
> beauties to be offered are yet to be found?.We
> expect a great 2007
> ?vintage?!
>
> Ensisheim meteorite repositories:
> My recently updated compilation of Ensisheim
> meteorite repositories
> will be distributed to all participants.
> (hey, it is more than time to provide me the kilos
> you have hidden in
> your collection!)
>
> Warning:
> Many people did already reserve their tables by
> mail. I will now be
> starting compiling their requests and finalize their
> places.
> HOWEVER, as I had several periods of mail troubles,
> may I ask everyone
> who did already reserve a table in the past, to
> CONFIRM THEIR
> RESERVATION (mail) once again from now on ?
> This is easier for me to handle, and safer for you.
>
> We still have free tables. I recommend you don?t
> reserve too late!
> And our former guests who did not yet send their
> traditional ?hello?,
> are urgently requested to confirm (or cancel) their
> wish to keep their
> usual tables at their favourite place.
>
> Web sites:
> You note that a new private web site (see above) was
> just created (a
> couple of days ago). The site of ?ville-ensisheim?,
> still mentioned on
> the circular, will again be fully operating soon.
> Very soon also you may find all the info related to
> the 2007 show at
> the web site of Nick Gessler (UCLA), with whom close
> contacts are
> maintained.
>
> Memories:
> My strong wish is to dedicate this 2007 edition to
> those people who
> recently had health problems that perturbed their
> meteorite passion.
> Here I mean Joel Schiff, Walter (and Rebekah)
> Branch, Iris Lang,
> Walter Zeitschel and a few others (I have not here
> my complete list).
> I hope our thoughts will help them to recover even
> more promptly.
> And I also wish we all bear in our memories the late
> Rolf B?hler,
> outstanding meteorite lover and personal friend of
> many of us, me
> included. Rolf deceased 2 years ago but the sad news
> just came a few
> weeks ago?.
>
> Well, that?s about all folks.
> There is much more to be said but I prefer you now
> ask specific questions.
>
> My last wish is that Ensisheim, just as all the
> other, at least as
> famous shows or events closely or subtly related to
> our beloved
> meteorites (Gifhorn, Tucson, Santa Mesa, Munich, Ste
> Marie?.) bring to
> all of us again passion, fun,
> meteorite faith (Ruben, Sonny?never loose it!) and
> friendship (you
> want my secret, though probably completely
> unrealistic dream ?...it is
> to see Mike and Mateo drinking a beer together one
> year in
> Ensisheim?...even if not at the same table!).
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Zelimir
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 20:46:17 +0200
> From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2007 show info
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Cc: Z.Gabelica at uha.fr
> Message-ID:
>
<20070414204617.81ibesw26akg0c80 at w3mail.univ-mulhouse.fr>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> DelSp="Yes";
> format="flowed"
>
> Dear List,
>
> The circular describing the 8th international
> meteorite show ?
> Ensisheim 2007 ? is ready. You can find it at the
> following web site
> (from next Monday April 16 on):
> http://meteorite.ensisheim.free
> I can also provide the circular (in English or
> French) by mail, on request.
>
> The main characteristics/changes/warnings? of the
> 2007 editions are
> (among) the following:
>
> Dates:
> June 16 and 17, 2007 (week-end preceding the St
> Marie mineral show).
> Friday 15 is the ?dealers day?.
>
> 2007 theme:
> Meteorites: weird shapes, internal beauties.
> Illustrated by a dual lecture on Saturday by Z.
> Gabelica (?odd
> morphologies??) & R. Warin (?Thin sections: open
> windows to
> cosmology?) as well as by the usual permanent
> thematic exhibit:
> ?meteorite samples involving unusual external shapes
> and strange
> sections? from private collections??
> (btw: we still need samples for display. Please
> contact me off list).
> Alain Carion will exhibit in a side-window of the
> museum, in preview,
> a fragment of the new French meteorite
> ?Saint-Ouen-en-Champagne?. This
> is our ?wild card??
>
> On Sunday, Nico Mettler (Winterthur, CH) will
> describe his recent
> 1000+ km expedition through the Great Sand Sea
> desert (Lybia-Egypt) in
> search for Lybian Desert Glass (LDG) samples,
> through a lecture
> entitled ?LDG: a quest for an enigma?.
> The Regency walls will be decorated by original
> drawings of our young
> artists, featuring ?Meteorite hunting in hot
> deserts? (a contest).
>
> Friday PARTY:
> As in 2006 a dinner-party (absolutely unavoidable!)
> is again scheduled
> on Friday June 15 (from 19:00) at ?La Couronne?
> hotel, in their
> outside resort (as in 2006, we have asked the
> weather to co-operate).
> Party can end any time.
> Two special meals are proposed for 25 euro,
> everything included,
> except beverage (hey, if beverage were included,
> bankrupt of ?La
> Couronne? guaranteed!).
> Everybody (organizers, dealers, close friends,
> ?loose? friends,
> relatives, related?) attending (or not) the
> enthroning ceremonies and
> the ?friendly drink? that follows (Friday late
> afternoon, about
> 18:00), is welcome!
> Fun guaranteed! (Ask the 70+ last year
> participants!).
> And ask for a wake-up call if you don?t want to miss
> the start of the
> ?meteorite hot rush? the next morning?
>
> Other meals:
> Saturday and Sunday lunches (served at ?La
> Couronne?) and the Saturday
> dinner (traditional ?roasted wild boar? served on
> the main ?dancing?
> square) will now be prepared by the team of cooks
> from ?La Couronne?.
> Friendly prices (17.5 euro for a complete menu) were
> negotiated. If
> you wish the special vintage ?Ensisheim-Meteorite
> 1492? Pinot Gris to
> accompany your meals, it will be permanently
> available at its tag price.
> The Guardians Confraternity is still permanently
> providing all other
> traditional snacks, including the very popular
> ?tarte flamb?e?
> (alsacian pie), all served outside on the main
> square (or inside the
> sun-protected tent, - rain is neither invited nor
> envisaged).
> All the other activities on the main square (beer,
> wine sale, beer,
> tee shirts, beer?) are maintained.
>
> Accomodation:
> Besides the 3 traditional hotels (La Couronne,
> Niemerich, Cheval
> Blanc), the brand new hotel ?Le Domaine du Moulin?
> is now open. It has
> the ?La Couronne? standard (4 stars) and is as close
> to the "Regency"
> (200 m ? or more, depending on how thirsty you were
> during the
> parties?).
> I haven?t visited it yet but heard that a double
> room, breakfast
> included, costs around 70-75 euro, a reasonable
> price even with the
> stronger euro).
>
> 5 new ?brothers?.
> This year, Anne Black (US), Reiner Bartoschewitz (D,
> Gifhorn
> organizer) & wife, Alex Seidel (D) and Serge
> Neunlist (F, our
> university president and?new meteorite lover) will
> become the new
> Guardians.
> (Gosh, I have the feeling having forgotten someone?)
>
> What is maintained in 2007:
> Table prices, entrance fee (4 euro for adults),
> table number (limited
> to 55) and their positions in rooms, reservation
> procedure (just write
> me!) and contacts. Also?Marcin?s cutting saw on the
> main square.
> And the FUNNY (crazy ?) characteristic and ever
> smiling ambience, of course!
>
> What is not maintained:
> Just meteorites sold in 2006....
> Thus much, much new and hot (or cold!) stuff!
> I bet some of the beauties to be offered are yet to
> be found?.We
> expect a great 2007 ?vintage?!
>
> Ensisheim meteorite repositories:
> My recently updated compilation of Ensisheim
> meteorite repositories
> will be distributed to all participants.
> (hey, it is more than time to provide me the
> kilos(!) you have hidden
> in your collection!)
>
> Warning:
> Many people did already reserve their tables by
> mail. I will now be
> starting compiling their requests and finalize their
> places.
> HOWEVER, as I had several periods of mail troubles,
> may I ask everyone
> who did already reserve a table in the past, to
> CONFIRM THEIR
> RESERVATION (mail) once again from now on ?
> This is easier for me to handle, and safer for you.
>
> We still have free tables. I recommend you don?t
> reserve too late!
> And our former guests who did not yet sent their
> traditional ?hello?,
> are urgently requested to confirm (or cancel) their
> wish to keep their
> usual tables at their favorite place.
>
> Web sites:
> You note that a new private web site (see above) was
> just created (a
> couple of days ago).
> The site of ?ville-ensisheim?, still mentioned on
> the circular, will
> again be fully operating soon.
> Very soon also you may find all the info related to
> the 2007 show at
> the web site of Nick Gessler (UCLA), with whom close
> contacts are
> maintained.
>
> Memories:
> My strong wish is to dedicate this 2007 edition to
> those people who
> recently had health problems that perturbed their
> meteorite passion.
> Here I mean Joel Schiff, Walter (and Rebekah)
> Branch, Iris Lang,
> Walter Zeitschel and a few others (I have not here
> my complete list).
> I hope our thoughts will help them to recover even
> more promptly.
>
> And I also wish we all bear in our memories the late
> Rolf B?hler,
> outstanding meteorite lover and personal friend of
> many of us, me
> included. Rolf deceased 2 years ago but the sad news
> just came a few
> weeks ago?.
>
> Well, that?s about all folks.
> There is much more to be said but I prefer you now
> ask specific questions.
>
> My last wish is that Ensisheim, just as all the
> other at least as
> famous shows or events, closely or subtly related to
> our beloved
> meteorites (Gifhorn, Tucson, Santa Mesa, Munich, Ste
> Marie?.), bring
> to all of us again passion, fun, meteorite faith
> (Ruben, Sonny?never
> loose it!) and friendship.
> (you want my secret, though probably completely
> unrealistic dream
> ?...it is to see Mike and Mateo drinking a beer
> together one year in
> Ensisheim?...even if not at the same table!).
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Zelimir
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 12:16:45 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] In search of a hammer
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID:
> <812984.16436.qm at web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Well, Sterling,
>
> There was a difference between haruspicy and
> astromancy. How and when they became "secret" is the
> issue at hand. Were they already "mysterious" at the
> time of the founding of the Empire? Or did they
> become "secret" with the founding of the college?
>
> For the problem at hand, the important information
> is
> where that army was when it was hit. Any ideas on
> that?
>
> good hunting,
> Ed
>
>
> --- "Sterling K. Webb"
> <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Ed,
> >
> > Because of the way topic thread titles are
> > re-cycled by email, THIS was the chief response
> > to your post, but the secondary chatty one is
> > what everybody read, assuming duplicate posts.
> >
> > I think you'll find this more interesting.
> >
> >
> > Sterling
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Sterling K. Webb"
> > <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
> > To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Cc: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 12:03 AM
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] In search of a
> hammer
> >
> >
> > Hi, E.P., List
> >
> > E. P. wrote:
> > > to put it mildly, this was a hot political
> topic.
> > > The suppression of Etruscan astromancy...
> actually
> >
> > > began with... Cicero... Julius's work represents
>
> > > the last real vestige of Etruscan astromancy...
> >
> > I agree that it was a hot, very hot, topic,
> but
> > I disagree
> > utterly that Imperial Rome dumped haruspicy and
> all
> > the
> > other divinatory arts, or forgot them, or ignored
> > them,
> > and here's why...
> >
> > Haruspicy and traditional Eutruscan Auspices
> > continued
> > in practice. Tiberius Claudius Caesar Augustus
> > Germanicus,
> > the emperor Claudius, of "I, Claudius" fame, was a
> > student
> > of Etruscan language and arts and opened a college
> > to preserve
> > and improve the auspicial arts, which institution
> > lasted until
> > well into the reign of Theodosius I, almost five
> > centuries later.
> > Claudius wrote a 20-scroll book about Eutruscan
> > language,
> > history and religion, entitled "Tyrrenike," only
> one
> > of his
> > several works on the Eutruscans.
> >
> > Here's where things start to sound fishy. One
> > encounters
> > statements in professional historians' work (who
> are
> > these
> > guys?) that go like this: "Only a few educated
> > Romans with
> > antiquarian interests, such as Varro, could read
> > Etruscan.
> > The last person known to have been able to read
> > Etruscan
> > was Claudius and his books were quickly forgotten
> > and lost."
> >
> > Let me get this straight. There's The Roman
> > Imperial College
> > of Haruspicy and the Eutruscan Arts of Divination,
> > in business
> > and thriving for four to five centuries, turning
> out
> > thousands of
> > graduates over those centuries, AND YET, they lose
> > all the
> > books that teach the language, forget their
> > knowledge of the
> > language, the language that the Libri Haruspicini
> > were written in?!
> >
> > Does this seem likely? Logical? Expected? Or
> > does it offend
> > reason? And, more importantly, is it true?
> >
> > OK, this is where I insert the 317 long boring
> > paragraphs
> > detailing that haruspicy flourished and was
> > widespread and
> > was taken very seriously for many centuries after
> > the point
> > where you say it was forgotten.
> >
> > Well, you can heave a big sigh of relief
> because
> > I'm going
> > to skip them (hooray!) and fast forward to 408 AD
> > when the
> > Goths under Alaric beseiged Rome and starved it in
> > an
> > attempt to blackmail the Emperor into paying up
> what
> > he
> > owed the Goths. The haruspices stepped forward and
> > offered
> > their services to help save the City, even in a
> > Christian Empire.
> > And, surprise, Pope Innocent I welcomed their aid
> > (welcomed
> > pagan priests?!), so long as their rituals were
> kept
> > secret. I
> > repeat, so long as their rituals were kept secret.
> > It would appear
> > that the Pope believed in the Auspices, too...
> >
> > And at long last, we reach the KEY word:
> SECRET.
> > We
> > modern enlightened types just can't take Greek or
> > Roman
> > religious concepts, beliefs and practices
> seriously.
> > We teach
> > mythology to our children like it was fairie
> tales,
> > entertainment.
> > THE ROMANS BELIEVED THEIR RELIGION AS MUCH AS
> > ANYBODY. The Greeks and Romans believed their
> > religion
> > as much as martyrs believe the faith they die for,
> > as much as
> > Usamah bin Laden believes God wants him to kill
> us,
> > as much
> > as the Pope believes in Catholicism.
> >
> > What is Divination? It is a secret and certain
> > knowledge
> > of the future. It reveals to The Rulers what is
> > going to happen,
> > where, when, and how, what is the right policy,
> the
> > right war,
> > how to fight it, who your enemies are... all the
> > stuff worth
> > knowing.
> >
> > What does that sound like to you? What, in our
> > own modern
> > "scientific" society, do we call that? When we
> write
> > the Auspices
> > down for the Emperor, what do we call it? Good
> > Guess! It's
> > called the National Intelligence Estimate!
> >
> > We have many Colleges of Haruspectelligence,
> > many Guilds,
> > many Priesthoods and varieties, the CIApex, the
> > NSApex, more
> > than a dozen (that we know about), and the one
> thing
> > that we all
> > agree on is that their Augeries MUST be kept
> SECRET,
> > and that
> > the Rulers must be in Control of them. Just ask
> Mr.
> > Bush. Are
> > leaks bad? Can I browse the CIA files for 2001?
> When
> > are you
> > publishing these in book form?
> >
> > How does the Ruler accomplish this? He must
> > control the
> > Haruspex in all their multitudes. For the Roman
> > Emperor, it
> > is to combine in his person all the offices
> > including the most
> > important of all: Pontifex Maximus, the Priest In
> > Charge. The
> > Haruspex all work for him now. To keep the
> Auspices
> > Secret,
> > you must Control them absolutely. The secrecy and
> > your control
> > of it guarantees that they can never be used
> against
> > you politically.
> >
> > You might want to ask Mr. Bush about that
> also.
> > (Or Mr.
> > Nixon, Kennedy, Reagan, Carter; they all seem to
> > have agreed
> > identically on this point of procedure: secrecy
> and
> > control.)
> >
> > So it is today that the Chiefs of all the
> > Haruspectelligence
> > Agencies are commanded by The Ruler. He even has a
> > Director
> > of National Haruspectelligence who function is to
> > command the
> > lesser Haruspectelligence Agencies for The Ruler.
> So
> > it was that
> > the Emperor controlled all public knowledge of the
> > Augeries, or
> > when necessary, concealed it, contrived it, or
> even
> > destroyed it.
> > It was just like National Intelligence is today.
> >
> > And as to why Augustus refused to strip
> Lepidus
> > of his
> > office of Pontifex Maximus (until he died, of
> > course), he only
> > did so to show his piety and respect for the
> office,
> > to gain
> > time to get control of all the auspicial
> functions,
> > and to avoid
> > the appearance of grabbing ALL power at once. But
> > when
> > Lepidus did die, Augustus assumed those powers,
> > becoming
> > Pontifex Maximus For Life, and so did EVERY Roman
> > Emperor that followed him, even the Christian
> ones.
> >
> > To understand this political dynamic, just
> look
> > forward to
> > the time when the first President that achieves
> the
> > goal of making
> > himself Emperor comes along, will he not allow the
> > sitting Chief
> > Justice of the Supreme Court to die in office
> before
> > appointing
> > himself to that life-time position? I hope so.
> >
> > So, all those records you think were lost and
> > disregarded
> > because the Romans no longer believed in auspices,
> > well, my
> > guess is that they were preserved and understood
> for
> > a very
> > long time. This is no comfort, however, when we
> hope
> > for
> > their ultimate survival to our day. We all know
> what
> > the
> > haruspectelligence agents do when the end comes
> and
> > the
> > enemy is breaking down the doors, when the nation
> is
> > finally
> > collapsing forever and all hope is gone: BURN THE
> > FILES.
> >
> >
> > Sterling K. Webb
> >
>
-------------------------------------------------------------
> > PS: What I want to see is the actual, unretouched
> > photos of
> > the liver of the goat that Donald Rumsfeld
> sacrified
> > before
> > the start of the Iraq War...
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> > To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 7:25 PM
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] In search of a
> hammer
> >
> >
> > Hi Mike -
> >
> > My own notes on Julius work. I'm sure I have
> copies
> > of
> > the exact translation from which I worked
> somewhere
> > in
> > my papers, but I seem to have ommitted it from my
> > note.
> > I suppose it was the initial onset of the stroke
> in
> > 2003.
> >
> > good hunting,
> > Ed
> >
> > A FEW FACTS ABOUT THE ROLES OF POLITICAL AND
> > RELIGIOUS
> > FACTORS IN THE SUPPRESSION OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF
> > IMPACTS
> >
> > DURING THE YEARS OF THE COLLAPSE OF THE ROMAN
> > REPUBLIC
> >
> >
> > While it is true that the Church's Platonic
> > orthodoxy
> > was rather strictly enforced for 1600 years or so,
>
> > in point of fact that suppression of impact
> > knowledge
> > began long before the Church ever gained power.
> >
> > >From Julius (IULII: OBSEQUENTIS AB ANNO URBIS
> > CONDITAE
> > DV PRODIGIORUM LIBER)
> >
> > "Consulship of Gnaeus Octavius and Licius Cinna
> (87
> > BCE)
> >
> > "56a. While Cinna and Marius were displaying a
> cruel
> > rage in their conduct of the civil war, at Rome in
> > the
> > camp of Gnaeus Pompeius [Strabo] the sky seems to
> > fall, weapons and standards were hit, and soldiers
> > struck dead. Pompeius [Strabo] himself was struck
> > dead by the
> > blast of a heavenly body."
> >
> > and to put it mildly, this was a hot political
> > topic.
> > The suppression of Etruscan astromancy and
> knowledge
> > of impact lore actually thus actually began with
> > Senate loyalist Cicero's deprecations of it in De
> > Divinatione (70 BCE) and De haruspicum Responsis
> (56
> > BCE), works which he wrote in support of Pompeius
> > Magnus, Pompeius Strabo's son, and against Caesar,
> > who
> > held the office of Pontifex Maximus, head of the
> > haruspex. But events will take yet a stranger
> turn.
> >
> > As Julius's work represents the last real vestige
> of
> > Etruscan astromancy and impact lore, establishing
> > its
> > date is essential. Now it is widely held that
> > Julius
> > himself extracted his haruspex's records from the
> > history of Rome which was written by Titus Livy,
> who
> > lived 59 BCE - 17 CE; Livy is thought to have
> begun
> > writing his history around 29 BCE, and it is
> > commonly
> > held that Julius's wrote his work much, much later
> > than 17 CE.
> >
> > But a problem with this dating scenario is that
> the
> > poet and astronomer Manilius appears to paraphrase
> > part of Julius's work in his Astonomica at
> IV.45-62,
> > and Manilius is known to have written this
> > particular
> > work spanning the time of the Emperor Augustus's
> > death
> > in 14
> > CE. (For the date of the composition of the
> > Astronomica definitively established by J.P. Good,
> > see
> > Manilius, Astronomica, J.P. Good translation, Loeb
> > Classical Library, page xiii). Therefore Julius's
> > work
> > or a part of it was must have been written before
> 14
> > CE.
> >
> > Were Julius's own personal name "Julius" not
> enough,
> > his conspicuous use of the name "Caesar" for
> > Octavian,
> > a usage which Julius Caesar's nephew Octavian
> (later
> > known as Augustus, the first Roman Emperor)
> himself
> > ferociously advocated, marks the work as having
> been
> > written for the most part early in Octavian's
> > campaign
> > for absolute power, if not indeed even earlier.
> > Julius's anti-Pompey bias is clearly demonstrated
> by
> > his reminder again of Pompey Strabo's death by
> > fulmine
> > in his entry for Strabo's son Pompey Magnus's
> death
> > in
> > 46 BCE.
> >
> > All of this brings us to a possible reason why
> > Julius
> > wrote the work in the first place - as a piece of
> > political propaganda first for Julius Caesar, and
> > then
> > for Octavian. Seen in another light, as the
> office
> > of
> > Emperor was entirely of Octavian's (Augustus's)
> own
> > making, and without precedent in Roman politics,
> > there
> > must have been a strong concern among the haruspex
> > as
> > to what role they would play in the new political
> > order. Quid pro quo, the influence of the haruspex
> > over the traditional republicans who normally
> would
> > abhor an emperor with the deepest of passions must
> > have been considerable. In short, at this point in
> > time, Etruscan astromancy and its knowledge of
> > impact
> > events was again being promoted, for the same
> reason
> > Cicero had for be-littling it.
> >
> > While the anti-Pompey bias of Julius's work is
> > datable
> > to sometime around Pompei's defeat by Julius
> Caesar,
> > say 49-46 BCE, there are yet other political
> > considerations which allow us to further refine
> the
> > date of the composition. Following Caesar's
> murder
> > by
> > the Senate, his nephew and heir Octavian
> (Augustus)
> > marched on Rome; in the meantime, Caesar's
> supporter
> > Marcus Antonius (Anthony) moved to take on a
> general
> > supported by the Senate, one Decimus Junius Brutus
> > Albinus.
> >
> > After Antony's defeat of the consuls sent against
> > him
> > by the Senate, Octavian gained authority from that
> > same Senate to move against Anthony. The first
> thing
> > which Octavian did with his new authority was to
> > shore
> > up his position in Rome; and then through the
> > offices
> > of Antonius's supporter, Marcus Aemilius Lepidus,
> > Octavian promptly entered into a new coalition
> with
> > Lepidus and Anthony, yet another triumvirate, to
> > take
> > on those generals supporting the very same Senate
> > which had appointed him in the first place.
> >
> > Here we come to the detailed events bearing more
> > directly on the problem at hand, the suppression
> of
> > Etruscan astromancy and impact knowledge. Through
> > these agreements with Octavian and Anthony,
> Lepidus
> > gained control of the North African grain
> supplies.
> >
> > In the meatime, the general Sextus Pompeius, the
> > youngest son of Pompey Magnus (and thus the
> grandson
> > of the man killed by the "fulmine", if you
> > remember),
> > who was loyal to the Senate, gained control of
> > Rome's
> > Navy and Sicily. To further his own personal
> power,
> > Sextus Pompeius instituted a blockade on Rome's
> > grain
> > supplies, and Octavian, Anthony, and Lepidus were
> > forced to recognize this final Pompey's authority.
> > When the three generals denied Sextus Pompeius
> > control
> > of the Peloponese following their victories in the
> > east, Sextus Pompeius agqain put a blockade on
> > Rome's
> > grain supplies.
> >
> > Octavian and Lepidus now moved against Sextus
> > Pompeius, but after they defeated Pompey III,
> > Lepidus
> > decided to make a play for the control of Sicily
> and
> > Rome's grain supplies. But then Lepidus's troops
> > deserted him for Octavian.
> >
> > And here we come to the point: in his victory,
> > Octavian did not murder Lepidus, but instead
> > "Octavian
> > spared his former triumviral colleague but
> stripped
> > him of his powers and confined him to house arrest
> > at
> > the pleasant seaside town of Circeii. There he
> lived
> > out his life unmolested until he died, of natural
> > causes, in 12 BC." (Garrett G. Fagan, Pennsylvania
> > State University, entry for Augustus, De Imperii
> > Romani, An Online Encyclopedia of the Roman
> > Emperors).
> >
> >
> > Further,(continuing with Fagan's summary), "When
> > Octavian returned to Rome in triumph following the
> > defeat of Sextus, the senate naturally moved to
> > honor
> > him extravagantly. AMONG THE PROPOSED HONORS WAS
> THE
> > SUGGESTION THAT OCTAVIAN BE NAMED PONTIFEX
> MAXIMUS,
> > PAGAN ROME'S CHIEF PRIEST. OCTAVIAN REFUSED.
> > LEPIDUS,
> > THOUGH DISGRACED, WAS PONTIFEX MAXIMUS; AND IT
> WOULD
> > BE AGAINST ESTABLISHED PRACTICE FOR AN INCUMBENT
> TO
> > BE
> > STRIPPED OF THIS AUGUST PRIESTHOOD WHILE STILL
> > ALIVE."
> >
> > This is when the suppression of Etruscan
> astromancy
> > and its knowledge of impact events began in full,
> > when
> > Octavian's (Augustus's) rival Lepidus was the
> > Pontifex
> > Maximus. It did not happen several hundred years
> > later , after the Church gained power. Seen in
> > another
> > way, Etruscan astromancy was tied closely with the
> > Republican form of government, and as such it had
> > little place in the Empire.
> >
> > As far as the Obsequentis goes, it could not have
> > been
> > publicly published after Lepidus returned to Rome
> in
> > 36 BCE. As Julius understated it in his later
> entry
> > for 44 BCE, "The howling of dogs was heard by
> night
> > before the residence of the Pontifex Maximus, and
> > the
> > fact that the largest dog was torn apart by the
> > others
> > foretold unseemly disgrace to Lepidus."
> >
> > Therefore we can date Julius's first draft with
> some
> > certainty to 49-46 BCE, with a later extension
> into
> > Octavian's time to 44-36 BCE. Ultimately,
> following
> > Lepidus' death, the original work was again
> > extended,
> > and with two isolated and dangling later final
> > additional entries, and it was brought through to
> > the
> > time of Octavian's death and the succession of the
> > next Emperor.
> >
> > As for Manilius, as the details of Sextus Pompey's
> > activities in Sicily were personally embarrassing
> to
> > Lepidus, no religious/astronomical work could be
> > written mentioning them while Lepidus was Pontifex
> > Maximus. It could only have been following the
> death
> > of Lepidus in 14 CE that Manilius added his
> mention
> > of
> > Sextus Pompey's blockades to his original draft.
> >
> > All of this brings us yet again to another reason
> > for
> > Octavian's (Augustus's) suppression of Etruscan
> > astromancy and impact knowledge. Livy, though an
> > acquaintance of Octavian (the first Emperor
> > Augustus),
> > is reported to have been considered by Augustus to
> > be
> > of republican sympathies - and Livy included the
> > extracts from the Julius's work simply to show the
> > omens in a republican light.
> >
> > This provided Octavian and his successors with yet
> > another reason for suppressing Etruscan
> astromancy.
> >
> > EP
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >
>
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 21:17:24 +0200
> From: "Andreas Gren" <info at meteoritenhaus.de>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] AD iron-meteorite elemente
> set
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Message-ID:
> <R058a8j3EI23ws.RZmta at mo-p00-ob.rzone.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> Hello List,
>
> for the iron collector who wants to give his
> collection a scientific touch,
> we have sets of pure iron meteorite related
> elements.
> Iron and Nickel of course and the three
> classification related elements
> Gallium, Germanium and Iridium.
>
> www.meteoritenhaus.de/img/IronSet.jpg
>
> The Elements are high purity laboratory quality:
> Fe Iron 99.95%
> Ni Nickel 99.9%
> Ga Gallium 99.99%
> Ge Germanium 99.9999%
> Ir Iridium 99.95%
>
> The price depends on filling quantity. examples:
>
> Set1: Fe 0.80g Ni 0.71g Ga 0.64g Ge 0.30g Ir
> 0.16g 28.95$
>
> Set2: Fe 1.02g Ni 0.77g Ga 0.76g Ge 0.36g Ir
> 0.18g 32.15$
>
> Set3: Fe 1.07g Ni 0.92g Ga 0.88g Ge 0.43g Ir
> 0.18g 34.15$
>
> Set4: Fe 1.82g Ni 2.04g Ga 0.91g Ge 0.50g Ir
> 0.24g 40.50$
> (pictured)
>
> Shipping: Germany 3$ Europe 5$ US/World 10$
>
> Thanks
> Have a nice weekend
> Andi
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 12:54:26 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] In search of a hammer -
> correction of de
> divinatione date
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID:
> <71099.92518.qm at web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hi all -
>
> Naturally, the striking of the spears and standards
> would point to lightening, and that's one reason why
> I
> left it.
>
> But the sky seems to fall, and the blast of a
> heavenly
> body?
> Any orbital mechanicians want to try this one?
> Anyone want to try and locate the army's camp?
>
> good hunting,
> Ed
>
> A FEW FACTS ABOUT THE ROLES OF POLITICAL AND
> RELIGIOUS
> FACTORS IN THE SUPPRESSION OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF
> IMPACTS
>
> DURING THE YEARS OF THE COLLAPSE OF THE ROMAN
> REPUBLIC
>
>
> While it is true that the Church's Platonic
> orthodoxy
> was rather strictly enforced for 1600 years or so,
> in point of fact that suppression of impact
> knowledge
> began long before the Church ever gained power.
>
> But it turns out that a major Roman political leader
> was killed by "fulmine" some 400 years before the
> Church ever gained much power:
>
> >From Julius (IULII: OBSEQUENTIS AB ANNO URBIS
> CONDITAE
> DV PRODIGIORUM LIBER)
>
> "Consulship of Gnaeus Octavius and Licius Cinna (87
> BCE)
>
> "56a. While Cinna and Marius were displaying a cruel
> rage in their conduct of the civil war, at Rome in
> the
> camp of Gnaeus Pompeius [Strabo] the sky seems to
> fall, weapons and standards were hit, and soldiers
> struck dead. Pompeius [Strabo] himself was struck
> dead by the
> blast of a heavenly body."
>
> and to put it mildly, this was a hot political
> topic.
>
> The suppression of Etruscan astromancy and knowledge
> of impact lore actually thus actually began with
> Senate loyalist Cicero's deprecations of it in De
> haruspicum Responsis (56 BCE) and De Divinatione (45
> BCE), works which he wrote in support of Pompeius
> Magnus, Pompeius Strabo's son, and against Caesar,
> who
> held the office of Pontifex Maximus, head of the
> haruspex. But events will take yet a stranger turn.
>
> As Julius's work represents the last real vestige of
> Etruscan astromancy and impact lore, establishing
> its
> date is essential. Now it is widely held that
> Julius
> himself extracted his haruspex's records from the
> history of Rome which was written by Titus Livy, who
> lived 59 BCE - 17 CE; Livy is thought to have begun
> writing his history around 29 BCE, and it is
> commonly
> held that Julius's wrote his work much, much later
> than 17 CE.
>
> But a problem with this dating scenario is that the
> poet and astronomer Manilius appears to paraphrase
> part of Julius's work in his Astonomica at IV.45-62,
> and Manilius is known to have written this
> particular
> work spanning the time of the Emperor Augustus's
> death
> in 14
> CE. (For the date of the composition of the
> Astronomica definitively established by J.P. Good,
> see
> Manilius, Astronomica, J.P. Good translation, Loeb
> Classical Library, page xiii). Therefore Julius's
> work
> or a part of it was must have been written before 14
> CE.
>
> Were Julius's own personal name "Julius" not enough,
> his conspicuous use of the name "Caesar" for
> Octavian,
> a usage which Julius Caesar's nephew Octavian (later
> known as Augustus, the first Roman Emperor) himself
> ferociously advocated, marks the work as having been
> written for the most part early in Octavian's
> campaign
> for absolute power, if not indeed even earlier.
> Julius's anti-Pompey bias is clearly demonstrated by
> his reminder again of Pompey Strabo's death by
> fulmine
> in his entry for Strabo's son Pompey Magnus's death
> in
> 46 BCE.
>
> All of this brings us to a possible reason why
> Julius
> wrote the work in the first place - as a piece of
> political propaganda first for Julius Caesar, and
> then
> for Octavian. Seen in another light, as the office
> of
> Emperor was entirely of Octavian's (Augustus's) own
> making, and without precedent in Roman politics,
> there
> must have been a strong concern among the haruspex
> as
> to what role they would play in the new political
> order. Quid pro quo, the influence of the haruspex
> over the traditional republicans who normally would
> abhor an emperor with the deepest of passions must
> have been considerable.
>
> In short, at this point in time, Etruscan astromancy
> and its knowledge of impact events was again being
> promoted, for the same reason Cicero had for
> be-littling it.
>
> While the anti-Pompey bias of Julius's work is
> datable
> to sometime around Pompei's defeat by Julius Caesar,
> say 49-46 BCE, there are yet other political
> considerations which allow us to further refine the
> date of the composition.
>
> Following Caesar's murder by the Senate, his
> nephew and heir Octavian (Augustus) marched on Rome;
> in the meantime, Caesar's supporter Marcus Antonius
> (Anthony) moved to take on a general supported by
> the
> Senate, one Decimus Junius Brutus Albinus.
>
> After Antony's defeat of the consuls sent against
> him
> by the Senate, Octavian gained authority from that
> same Senate to move against Anthony. The first thing
> which Octavian did with his new authority was to
> shore
> up his position in Rome; and then through the
> offices
> of Antonius's supporter, Marcus Aemilius Lepidus,
> Octavian promptly entered into a new coalition with
> Lepidus and Anthony, yet another triumvirate, to
> take
> on those generals supporting the very same Senate
> which had appointed him in the first place.
>
> Here we come to the detailed events bearing more
> directly on the problem at hand, the suppression of
> Etruscan astromancy and impact knowledge. Through
> these agreements with Octavian and Anthony, Lepidus
> gained control of the North African grain supplies.
>
> In the meatime, the general Sextus Pompeius, the
> youngest son of Pompey Magnus (and thus the grandson
> of the man killed by the "fulmine", if you
> remember),
> who was loyal to the Senate, gained control of
> Rome's
> Navy and Sicily. To further his own personal power,
> Sextus Pompeius instituted a blockade on Rome's
> grain
> supplies, and Octavian, Anthony, and Lepidus were
> forced to recognize this final Pompey's authority.
> When the three generals denied Sextus Pompeius
> control
> of the Peloponese following their victories in the
> east, Sextus Pompeius agqain put a blockade on
> Rome's
> grain supplies.
>
> Octavian and Lepidus now moved against Sextus
> Pompeius, but after they defeated Pompey III,
> Lepidus
> decided to make a play for the control of Sicily and
> Rome's grain supplies. But then Lepidus's troops
> deserted him for Octavian.
>
> And here we come to the point: in his victory,
> Octavian did not murder Lepidus, but instead
> "Octavian
> spared his former triumviral colleague but stripped
> him of his powers and confined him to house arrest
> at
> the pleasant seaside town of Circeii. There he lived
> out his life unmolested until he died, of natural
> causes, in 12 BC." (Garrett G. Fagan, Pennsylvania
> State University, entry for Augustus, De Imperii
> Romani, An Online Encyclopedia of the Roman
> Emperors).
>
>
> Further,(continuing with Fagan's summary), "When
> Octavian returned to Rome in triumph following the
> defeat of Sextus, the senate naturally moved to
> honor
> him extravagantly. AMONG THE PROPOSED HONORS WAS THE
> SUGGESTION THAT OCTAVIAN BE NAMED PONTIFEX MAXIMUS,
> PAGAN ROME'S CHIEF PRIEST. OCTAVIAN REFUSED.
> LEPIDUS,
> THOUGH DISGRACED, WAS PONTIFEX MAXIMUS; AND IT WOULD
> BE AGAINST ESTABLISHED PRACTICE FOR AN INCUMBENT TO
> BE
> STRIPPED OF THIS AUGUST PRIESTHOOD WHILE STILL
> ALIVE."
>
> This is when the suppression of Etruscan astromancy
> and its knowledge of impact events began in full,
> when
> Octavian's (Augustus's) rival Lepidus was the
> Pontifex
> Maximus. It did not happen several hundred years
> later after the Church gained power. Seen in another
> way, Etruscan astromancy was tied closely with the
> Republican form of government, and as such it had
> little place in the Empire.
>
> As far as the Obsequentis goes, it could not have
> been
> publicly published after Lepidus returned to Rome in
> 36 BCE. As Julius understated it in his later entry
> for 44 BCE, "The howling of dogs was heard by night
> before the residence of the Pontifex Maximus, and
> the
> fact that the largest dog was torn apart by the
> others
> foretold unseemly disgrace to Lepidus."
>
> Therefore we can date Julius's first draft with some
> certainty to 49-46 BCE, with a later extension into
> Octavian's time to 44-36 BCE. Ultimately, following
> Lepidus' death, the original work was again
> extended,
> and with two isolated and dangling later final
> additional entries, and it was brought through to
> the
> time of Octavian's death and the succession of the
> next Emperor.
>
> As for Manilius, as the details of Sextus Pompey's
> activities in Sicily were personally embarrassing to
> Lepidus, no religious/astronomical work could be
> written mentioning them while Lepidus was Pontifex
> Maximus. It could only have been following the death
> of Lepidus in 14 CE that Manilius added his mention
> of
> Sextus Pompey's blockades to his original draft.
>
> All of this brings us yet again to another reason
> for
> Octavian's (Augustus's) suppression of Etruscan
> astromancy and impact knowledge. Livy, though an
> acquaintance of Octavian (the first Emperor
> Augustus),
> is reported to have been considered by Augustus to
> be
> of republican
> sympathies - and Livy included the extracts from the
> Julius's work simply to show the omens in a
> republican
> light.
>
> This provided Octavian and his successors with yet
> another reason for suppressing Etruscan astromancy.
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 18:12:05 -0500
> From: "Sterling K. Webb"
> <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] TEST -- DELETE PLEASE
> To: "Meteorite List"
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Message-ID:
> <021f01c77eea$52432e50$862e4842 at ATARIENGINE>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> TEST
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 03:40:17 +0200
> From: "PolandMET" <marcin at polandmet.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2007 info
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Message-ID:
> <001b01c77eff$05deb470$0300000a at polandmezrd5i9>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed;
> charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>
> What is maintained in 2007:
> Table prices, entrance fee (4 euro for adults),
> table number (limited
> to 55) and their positions in rooms, reservation
> procedure (just write
> me!) and contacts. Also?Marcin?s cutting saw on the
> main square.
>
> ========
> Yes, my machine will be ready to cut all Your lunar,
> venus and planet X
> material.
> And I hope that it will be sold there :)
> So if You need a good saw, then its a good place to
> test it and decide.
>
>
> -----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]-----
> http://www.Meteoryt.net
> marcin at meteoryt.net
> http://www.PolandMET.com marcin at polandmet.com
> http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195
> --------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society
> ]--------
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 21:14:05 -0500
> From: "Sterling K. Webb"
> <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] LOCATION of a hammer
> To: "Meteorite List"
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Cc: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> Message-ID:
> <024c01c77f03$bf550cc0$862e4842 at ATARIENGINE>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi, Ed, List,
>
> Where was Pompeius Strabo when he died?
> Pretty sure it was in the immediate vicinity of
> Rome itself, outside the walls and within, say 20
> Roman miles and probably 10.
> Encyclopedia Brit., 11th Ed., says Gnaeus
> Pompeius
> Strabo died of the "plague," and that "a mob dragged
> his
> body through the streets until a tribune
> interceded."
> The legion that Strabo raised were from, and
> were based
> at, Picenum up north, and his son took them back
> there
> after the old man's death.
> Picenum was home. Gnaeus Pompeius Strabo, often
> referred to as Strabo or Pompey Strabo in English,
> was a
> Roman from the rural province of Picenum. He became
> the first
> of the Pompeii to achieve senatorial status in Rome,
> despite
> the anti-rural prejudice of the Roman Senate. After
> proving
> his military talent, Strabo climbed the cursus
> honorum and
> became consul in the year 89 BC, in the midst of the
> Social
> War. That a war against the Socii, or Allies, other
> Italian
> cities who usually sided with Rome but were upset at
> their
> treatment at the hands of the Romans.
> Strabo commanded Roman forces against these
> Italian
> Allies in the northern part of Italy. His three
> Roman legions
> were instrumental in Rome's victory. After his
> consulship
> and the war, Strabo retired to Picenum with all of
> his
> veteran soldiers.
> He remained there until 87 BC, when he responded
> to
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla's request for help against
> Gaius
> Marius.
> Strabo besieged Rome, but died before any battle
> could
> be fought. This would seem to pinpoint his location.
> Strabo's son, the famous Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus
> (Pompey the Great), took the legions back to
> Picenum.
> Says the Wiki: "Strabo had the habit of playing
> both
> ends against the middle in the intense politics of
> the period.
> Sulla arranged to remove Strabo from the command and
>
> replace him with a handpicked confederate. Strabo
> left
> camp on "personal business" while his soldiers
> killed
> the replacement."
> This was apparently outside of Rome (if
> beseiging it).
> Sulla's replacement, who Strabo's troops killed, was
>
> the consul Q. Pompeius Rufus, poor dum SOB. There
> seems no doubt that Strabo was at Rome: "Strabo,
> whose
> duty [to Sulla] it was to defend Rome against Cinna
> and
> Marius, negotiates with Cinna, but dies during the
> general
> epidemic [in 87 BC]."
> The Romans started their year in the dead of
> winter, like
> we do, on January 1.*
> So, there was at Rome at one and the same time,
> a civil
> war, an epidemic of type unknown, and an
> army-killing
> lightning, blast, impact, or airburst event.
> I'd say the omens at that moment were NOT good,
> wouldn't you?
> If it was at Rome or nearby, you can forget
> looking
> for any traces as few places on Earth have been more
>
> chewed up, for thousands of years, than the general
> neighborhood of Rome!
>
> *The Roman civil year started on 1st January and
> its
> use continued until the seventh century AD. The
> Christian
> Church generally wished to move towards using one of
>
> its major festivals as the start of the year, and
> Christmas
> Day was used from the time of Bede (AD 672 or 673
> to 735) until the twelfth century.
> The Feast of the Annunciation, 25th March,
> started
> to be used in the ninth century as the beinginning
> of
> the calendar year in parts of southern Europe, but
> only
> became widespread in Europe from the eleventh
> century
> and in England from the late twelfth.
> It then held sway until the sixteenth century.
> 1st January
> then started to be used as the start of the year,
> starting
> in Venice in 1522. Dates when this change was made
> in some
> other countries are: 1544 Germany; 1556 Spain,
> Portugal,
> the Catholic Netherlands; 1559 Prussia, Denmark,
> Sweden;
> 1564 France; 1579 Lorraine; 1583 the Protestant
> Netherlands;
> 1600 Scotland; 1725 Russia; 1721 Tuscany; and
> finally in
> 1752, England and her colonies. So, when you read
> that
> something happened in February, 1630, in London, it
> was
> really February, 1631 by our way of reckoning.
> Annoying.
> But for the Romans, it's not a problem.
>
> As for Augustus consolidating power slowly: "In
> 22 BC,
> Augustus resigns his eleventh consulship, probably
> because
> of illness. He is awarded for life full tribunician
> powers,
> and extended imperium which gives him authority over
>
> any provincial governor and over the army (renewed
> for
> five years in 18 and 13, and for ten years in 8, and
>
> AD 3 and 13.)
> In 22, there's famine and plague. Augustus
> declines
> the dictatorship and censorship for life, but
> accepts
> the post of "corn supremo." He leaves for the East
> for three years. In 21, Agrippa is forced by
> Augustis
> to divorce his existing wife and marry Augustus's
> daughter Julia, whose husband Marcellus died after
> being married to her for two years.
> In 18, the Senate is reduced to a mere 600
> senators.
> (You think 100 is bad?) Agrippa is granted special
> powers.
> In 17, Augustus adopts Agrippa's and Julia's two
> sons,
> Gaius and Lucius, as his own sons.
> In 15, Tiberius and Drusus, Augustus's Claudian
> stepsons, defeat the Raeti and Vindelici, whose
> territory
> becomes a Roman province.
> In 13, Tiberius's first consulship. Augustus
> returns
> to Rome after three years in Gaul, and Agrippa after
>
> three years in the east. Agrippa's special powers
> are
> extended for five years. Lepidus dies. Augustus is
> elected pontifex maximus. In 12, Agrippa dies.
> Tiberius
> is forced to marry his widow, Augustus' daughter
> Julia.
> Augustus' power is pretty much complete at this
> point.
> It is not just that his rivals for power are dead,
> but that
> all the potential heirs to power are also firmly
> under his
> control; there is no child out there with a claim to
> similar honors being raised by some other family to
> someday threaten Augustus and the family he controls
> for power. Of course, most of them will die before
> they are in a position to be a threat. Most
> convenient.
>
>
> Sterling K. Webb
>
---------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 2:16 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] In search of a hammer
>
>
> Well, Sterling,
>
> There was a difference between haruspicy and
> astromancy. How and when they became "secret" is the
> issue at hand. Were they already "mysterious" at the
> time of the founding of the Empire? Or did they
> become "secret" with the founding of the college?
>
> For the problem at hand, the important information
> is
> where that army was when it was hit. Any ideas on
> that?
>
> good hunting,
> Ed
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> End of Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 41, Issue 51
> **********************************************
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