[meteorite-list] ID cards
mark ford
markf at ssl.gb.com
Thu Nov 16 12:34:39 EST 2006
It's also worth remembering that a lot of labs/museums do exactly this anyway (that's what a Huss/nininger number is in the first place! - a unique reference number that usually references to an info card!)
But you are probably right, it's probably not going to work in a commercial word, where people often don't care about the rocks much, - and as for agreeing a standard yes, just recall the arguments there where about pairings!
Best to just vote with ones feet, and not buy from dealers who offer no info with their stones!
Mark
_____
From: Dave Freeman mjwy [mailto:dfreeman at fascination.com]
Sent: 16 November 2006 17:13
To: mark ford
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ID cards
Dear Mark;
I still go with a card yes, and......the very unpopular idea of a chain of custody form. About half of what you are discussing should be on a chain of custody form/ authenticity certificate. The more valuable, the more special, the greater need for a chain of custody form.
Heck a nice NWA from Dean accompanied by his card is real nice. A gaza stone should come with a certificate that is signed and frame able. Don't forget that much of the information you discuss is in a book and can be referenced by the individual.
New auction: Gaza house crumb: $200 comes with signed affidavit and all the scientific data in a large folder, $40 shipping.
AS ONE CAN SEE from the comments on this thread, no two persons can agree on what in heck should be on a card and we all wonder why dealers don't piddle around with cards much any more. One size fits all card, additional fee $65 and I will accompany the specimen with a card of your design that gets custom made at the local card shop.....caution: font may be very very small if too much information is printed on the "plank".
Back to the card forum................
Dave F.
no sumptin' fo' nutin' here.
mark ford wrote:
True but I was thinking more about a 'traceable route' than just a glorified label, things like TKW, even classification can change over a meteorites life ... but information like 'I sprayed VCI all over it', 'ex nininger', 'part of the piece that smashed up a house' all this information is important stuff, especially if it was ever studied scientifically.
You can of course just collect 'space rocks', but many of us collect historic meteorites too !! I am concerned that we are not leaving much historical stuff for future generations.
How many pieces of the Garza stone are now sitting in plastic boxes with a label saying 'Park Forest'?? What about the story behind it or the fact that it never touched the ground or got wet in the rain?
I could go on a million times but I will leave it at that.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Martin Altmann
Sent: 16 November 2006 14:03
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ID cards
Hummm Frederic,
I think it's a little bit impolite to hand over to the collector an
ID-plank, instead of an ID-card.
How should one place such much information on a card, which is little larger
than 1 or 2 matchbooks?
I think the very rudimentary data are sufficient,
almost each collector knows how to use the Blue Book or the Bulletin
database, so that we don't have to put him under tutelage.
And don't forget, for many of them it's a fun, to categorize and to sort
their specimens by their own, to write their own specimen labels, to
customize and to build up their own databases or written documentation and
to hunt in the literature and web for more information about the individual
locales. That's one aspect, which makes collecting so satisfying.
Not to forget, that for some collectors also individual specimen cards are
collectible items or trophies. If they all would look the same, it would be
a little monotone, wouldn't it?
(I like our new cards, yummy, they even do have a hologram...)
Huh and David,
Close and tighten your Tyvek suit :-)
Let's take the worst case of collectors for a dealer as an example:
- They like to pay for the most exotic types 1 or 2 bucks per gram,
everything else they take for an extortion.
- They are buying only Micro- and Nanomounts in the sub-gram range.
- But please, highly polished in at least 6 steps on both sides.
- slices not thicker than 1mm,
- and absolutely coplanar.
They're waiting to get that stuff on ebay, where not so seldom, such
specimens die at 5$.
- They want to have it delivered from all over the world within 3 days after
auction has ended,
- but they don't want to pay more than 1$ shipment costs.
- They want to have it sent registered
- and with insurance.
- If they aren't fully pleased with that specimen (or when they found the
same locales meanwhile even more cheaper elsewhere), they want to send it
back at the dealer's expense.
- They want it to be well packed in a zip bag
- and in an air cushion envelope.
- For display it should come of course with a membrane box.
- To avoid customs tax, they want to get the receipt sent separately by
letter (of course on dealer's expense).
And now, the dealer should also add a super-designed label, colour print,
high gloss, laminated, professionally printed on deckle edged paper with a
personal dedication?
Ey David, in such cases it is by far cheaper and it would save so much time
for a dealer to send to such a customer not only the money back, but to add
a 10$ note, humbly thanking for the try to buy from him.
Martin
PS
(Hmm, I'd like to have to have a flimsy paper ID-card from Mr.Chladni,
Daubree, Cohen...)
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von
Meteoriteshow
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. November 2006 13:33
An: David Weir; mark ford; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] ID cards
Hi,
I guess that most of us are open to standardize meteorites' ID cards but I
think that the main stage would be to standardize the
information that should be stated on such cards, when available of course.
The material that the card is made of is another issue and if we want to
standardize this as well I'm quite sure that it won't reach
any complete agreement of each member of the community...
Here is a suggestion of what ID cards could mention:
- Name of the meteorite, with mention whether it is official (Nom Com) or
not (personal name or working name, when not yet
classified or Nom Com approved)
- Type, as accurate as possible (could be an estimation such as "OC", etc
when it is stated that the meteorite was not classified)
- Lab & sicentist who made the classification (when classified)
- Reference of Met Bul # & year (when classified)
- Place of find / fall, with if possible coordinates
- TKW
- Number of fragments
- Main scientific infos when classified (Fa% / Fs% for OCs, W, S, etc...)
- Specimen's weight
- Remarks (such as specimen's description -slice, endcut, individual,
fragment...- or possible pairings, etc...)
- And of course the name of the collection it comes from (with infos such as
website and e-mail addresses for instance)
All the best,
Frederic Beroud
http://www.meteoriteshow.com
IMCA member # 2491 (http://www.imca.cc/)
----- Original Message -----
From: "mark ford" <markf at ssl.gb.com> <mailto:markf at ssl.gb.com>
To: "David Weir" <dgweir at earthlink.net> <mailto:dgweir at earthlink.net> ;
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> <mailto:meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ID cards
-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of David
Weir
Sent: 16 November 2006 10:47
To: Meteorite List
Subject: [meteorite-list] ID cards
Dear List,
I remember when dealers used to give ID cards that were actually made
from card stock, or at least thick paper. Perhaps those who sell
thousands of specimens a year figure their businesses can save a few
dollars by going to flimsy paper for their ID cards, that's their
business decision. I personally don't like these flimsy paper "cards"
because they get bent and tear easily and just aren't compatible with
the real cards that I receive from the vast majority of dealers. I am
hesitant to pass these flimsy pieces of paper on to others when I trade
away or sell different specimens because they just make the specimen
seem cheap somehow, comparable to the cheap paper used. I just don't
understand how any highly successful meteorite business selling in a
worldwide market and trying to maintain a high standard of excellence
can provide such crappy (as in cow crappy) ID papers. I find it hard to
imagine a reason to do this, except of course if the cost of the card
stock for the card would be a significant portion of the sales profit,
such as in a Bessy speck. I'm not referring to that situation. I have
never seen this issue brought up on the list before and so I am
fearlessly bringing it up. Those who take offense are welcome to throw
crap at me, I have my Tyvek suit on and really don't care. I just get
tired of dealers calling flimsy paper IDs "ID Cards", but I'll get over
it in a few minutes.
David
The Weir Meteorite Collection
meteoritestudies .com
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