[meteorite-list] Lost Opportunities Past and Future was Some ..meteorite finds.

[E J]

Armando Afonso wrote:
>But I blame them as much as you, for a unconcerned approach to the
subject.

I far more concerned about the subject than one would imagine, and I
understand how it can offend.  I don't think I'll ever get over the
Tagish Lake Fiasco even if I understand the decisions made.  If the
willing, ready and, competent volunteers had been allowed to assist, a
lot less of the 99% that sank would be available for study/collections. 
Examples of how not to do it, of course we have the lens of hindsight on
these matters and even that lens is can produce polarized images. We
would hope the next example isn't like Park Forrest with the police
sponsored extortion.  I find after the headlines have faded-- so do the
lessons learned. Looking beyond these examples I will be a voice in the
wilderness lamenting the lack of planning for such an event as a major fall.

There are many impediments to a "working"solution. While you and I
differ, perhaps, in point of view, but we are probably motivated by more
in common.  For myself, I cannot equate the random fall of a meteorite
onto any given political jurisdiction as "culturally connected",
automatically garnering the status of "cultural property".  I can
support the claim a little easier if it is classified as an object of
"scientific value" and it is timely recovered and curated for science.
The cultural claim comes across as a guise for ( in your allusion)
government-sponsored piracy.  In some recent similar situations, it was
a stretch to claim that a skeleton buried 10,000 years before a modern
tribe roamed a given territory was culturally connected to that
Johnny-come-lately occupant of said adjacent tribal lands and thus a
culturally affilated remain that had to be immediately reintered.  A
Florida agency recently moved to virtually eliminate all fossil
collecting in waterways of the state, where before there was a licensing
program in place to report and document  certain finds. All these
mentalities tend to quash science rather than promote it.

There can be cooperation after the fact. In the case of the Otzi the
bronze-aged mummy found by German tourists on the Austrian-Italian
border, Austria agreed after recovering Otzi he had actually been inside
Italy and turned over the remains to Italy.  If we had to wait for a
court decision, the body would have long since decayed where it laid.
The point being there are scientifically important events where the find
can be properly preserved and the details of ownership sorted out
afterwards. (I am reminded of the old riddle: If an airplane of
immigrants crashes on border of Arizona and Colorado which state is
responsible for burying the survivors, but I digress). Bottomline is
that both institution and collector will lose out if we don't have a plan.

 Some while ago there was a conference, I understand, that promoted the
cooperation of professional and amateur working together instead of
trashing each other and missing opportunities(paleo? meteoritical?). If
anyone remembers this I'd like to know what became of that  effort as
for establishing a protocol or guideline for how they would work
together.  I also recall a private initiative to produce a training
program leading to certification for credentialing field
investigators/recovery workers.

 Here in the US, the Federal Government; the National Park Service, The
Forestry Service,and the Department of Defense(DoD)--amongst the larger
public property holders, have no framework in place to allow the
recovery of any meteorite fall on public lands. (BLM has a gray-area
void for  anything under 250lbs, Dave Freeman knows more about the
specifics).  Imagine an Allende-sized shower in the Mojave Desert.  It
is  a never before studied aromatic, ice laden cometary originating
meteorite. A rock hound and forest ranger are there when it falls.  The
rock hound being a meteorite central list subscriber empties out his
beer cooler to make room for as many pieces as he can stuff in it.  The
ranger says  "Sorry, no can do!"   Imagine the the loss of data while a
response is contemplated: we form a scientific advisory committee, a
legislative package to establish a legal framework, approach the Army
Corps of Engineers, Park Service, California Dept of Natural Resources,
and Environmental Protection Agency for approvals. It will never occur
to them while turf-brawling to ask the US Geological Survey or NASA to
the table as referees. 

If you think this is a stretch of the imagination, I did find a fresh
meteorite on DoD property, going by the book, I left it lay.  Some time
later, I contacted the Smithsonian and they told me I had to bring it to
them--at my expense. I contacted a nearby University known for its
meteorite studies program to solicit their attempts to work government
to government and was told " not my job".  I went back to DoD on whose
land it was on and was told I could come show it to them but it couldn't
even be picked up for transfer to the Smithsonian.  They would have to
do an Environmental Impact Study and a Decision Paper, before doing so
much as brushing the sand off it.  I wish I were kidding.

Elton



>