[meteorite-list] Portales Valley Classification Info

d freeman dfreeman at fascination.com
Tue May 17 14:33:56 EDT 2005 

Maybe Tom could use the tip of reading more books and papers and asking 
a few less questions that are not really up to speed with the issues.
Dave

Bob Holmes wrote:

> Tom,
>
> The word 'lazy' came from your post, not mine. Perhaps there was an 
> error in the initial classification, but obviously many people 
> realized the need for clarification and were quite diligent in their 
> pursuits. This is an ongoing process. I for one, thank Jeff Grossman 
> for standing up and explaining what the process was.  You complain 
> about all the negativity on the list, but here you are again (the 
> Pope, Barringer, remember?), espousing negativity.
>
> What is it you want from 'them'?
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Knudson" 
> <peregrineflier at npgcable.com>
> To: "Bob Holmes" <bobholmes at cox.net>; "Robert Woolard" 
> <meteoritefinder at yahoo.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 10:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Portales Valley Classification Info
>
>
>> Hi Bob,
>>
>> " I don't believe you were ever chided for questioning the need for
>> reclassifying, I believe the problem stemmed from your derogatory 
>> remarks
>> about those working (or not working, lazy, as you assert), on PV. AND as
>> you
>> can see now, work was being done, they were not sitting on their hands,
>> doing nothing. Further, it seems to me as though they had a new type of
>> class and wanted to be sure of their results."
>>
>>
>>> >> now have the proposed reclassification of PV as an "
>>> >> H7, metallic-melt breccia (primitive achondrite)",
>>> >> with the case made for a new meteorite type
>>> >> designation of "Portalesite" due to this metallic-melt
>>> >> breccia characteristic.
>>
>>
>> If this proposed reclassification happens, what does this say about the
>> original classification?  Was it wrong?  Was it a rush to judgment? 
>> Did they
>> not want to take the time out to study it enough to properly classify it
>> (lazy)?  How could it go from an H6 ordinary chondrite to a 
>> "Portalesite,
>> H7, metallic-melt breccia (primitive achondrite)" Did it experience a
>> metamorphous between studies.
>> I did not call anyone "working" on it lazy, I asked why the original 
>> group
>> did not make up a new classification for this unique meteorite. 
>> Apparently
>> Alex Ruzicka, Marvin Killgore, David Mittlefehldt, and Marc Fries among
>> others I am sure, could see this meteorite needed to be studied 
>> further and
>> thought it needed to be something more than an H6 ordinary chondrite.
>>  If this reclassification does happen, I think my question back in 
>> March of
>> 2004 is a fair and valid question,  why was PV called a H6 ordinary
>> chondrite?
>>   Astronomers are always being reprimanded for telling us a killer 
>> asteroid
>> is going to strike the Earth next year. They come out and say it 
>> before they
>> get all the information and when they finally do get all the 
>> information,
>> they look bad for jumping the gun.  A scientist came out and said PV 
>> was an
>> H6 ordinary chondrite. Now it looks like all the info might be in and
>> someone had jumped the gun. Do these two branches of science have to 
>> play by
>> the same rules, find out all the info before you talk?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks, Tom
>> peregrineflier <><
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bob Holmes" <bobholmes at cox.net>
>> To: "Tom Knudson" <peregrineflier at npgcable.com>; "Robert Woolard"
>> <meteoritefinder at yahoo.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 9:52 AM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Portales Valley Classification Info
>>
>>
>>> Tom ,
>>>
>>> I don't believe you were ever chided for questioning the need for
>>> reclassifying, I believe the problem stemmed from your derogatory 
>>> remarks
>>> about those working (or not working, lazy, as you assert), on PV. 
>>> AND as
>>
>> you
>>
>>> can see now, work was being done, they were not sitting on their hands,
>>> doing nothing. Further, it seems to me as though they had a new type of
>>> class and wanted to be sure of their results.
>>>
>>> That PV was not an ordinary H6 is not an opinion that was yours 
>>> alone, and
>>> you were part of a vast majority. Instead of patting yourself on the 
>>> back,
>>> why don't you apologize for your derisive insinuations about those who
>>
>> have
>>
>>> put much time and effort into the study of PV.
>>>
>>> Bob Holmes
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Tom Knudson" <peregrineflier at npgcable.com>
>>> To: "Robert Woolard" <meteoritefinder at yahoo.com>;
>>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 9:11 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Portales Valley Classification Info
>>>
>>>
>>> > Hi List, back in March of 2004, I made a lot of enemies on the 
>>> list for
>>> > asking;
>>> >
>>> > " I have to ask, was Portales Valley classified as a H6 ordinary
>>> > chondrite because "they" were to lazy to make up a new 
>>> classification?
>>
>> It
>>
>>> > would seem to me that this unique meteorite deserves it's own group
>>> > instead
>>> > of being shoved into an already existing group.
>>> > I do not feel like we have found every type of meteorite yet, are 
>>> "they
>>> > going do this with all of them, just sticking them in existing
>>
>> categories,
>>
>>> > or will they make a new one if need be?"
>>> >
>>> > I was called everything from an idiot to a stupid mother $#*&^#  by a
>>
>> lot
>>
>>> > of
>>> > people on the list for questioning the classification. I was put 
>>> in my
>>> > place, never question the scientists, if they said it was a H6 
>>> ordinary
>>> > chondrite, then it was!
>>> >
>>> > Just thought it was interesting . : )
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Thanks, Tom
>>> > peregrineflier <><
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: "Robert Woolard" <meteoritefinder at yahoo.com>
>>> > To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>> > Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 7:21 PM
>>> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Portales Valley Classification Info
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Hello List,
>>> >>
>>> >>   Well for years now, I know a lot of us were puzzled
>>> >> by the classification of Portales Valley as an " H6
>>> >> ordinary chondrite". (See my article in the May 2001
>>> >> issue of Meteorite, titled " Portales Valley - A Not
>>> >> So Ordinary (Ordinary Chondrite??)! "  In the recent
>>> >> past, the classification was modified a bit, being
>>> >> changed to read as an " H6 Impact Melt Breccia ".
>>> >>
>>> >>   I am excited to be able to say that there is a
>>> >> distinct chance the true uniqueness of PV may soon be
>>> >> reflected in a possible new moniker for this
>>> >> intriguing meteorite. David Weir was kind enough to
>>> >> make me aware of a new and comprehensive paper by Alex
>>> >> Ruzicka, Marvin Killgore, David Mittlefehldt, and Marc
>>> >> Fries in the current MAPS. In this detailed work, we
>>> >> now have the proposed reclassification of PV as an "
>>> >> H7, metallic-melt breccia (primitive achondrite)",
>>> >> with the case made for a new meteorite type
>>> >> designation of "Portalesite" due to this metallic-melt
>>> >> breccia characteristic.
>>> >>
>>> >>   You can read David's updated description of PV on
>>> >> his excellent website here:
>>> >>
>>> >>     http://www.meteoritestudies.com
>>> >>
>>> >>   Many thanks to David for news of this exciting
>>> >> paper, and to the authors of the paper as well.
>>> >>
>>> >>   Sincerely,
>>> >>   Robert Woolard
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> __________________________________
>>> >> Do you Yahoo!?
>>> >> Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
>>> >> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>>> >> ______________________________________________
>>> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > ______________________________________________
>>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.12 - Release Date: 5/17/2005
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>

More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list