[meteorite-list] Michael's meteorite market trends

[Martin H.]

Hello Michael, 

You are correct in that if one wants to blindly search
online archives and print media, they will eventually
stumble on some information that would suggest that
they avoid certain persons. But without understanding
the history of the exchange on the Meteorite List,
likely almost all dealers would appear to be ones to
avoid given any random exchange.

Imagine being a newbe and jumping into the archive,
landing in a verbal dispute between, say, the Hupe's
and Farmer, or Matteo and Farmer, or Casper and
Farmer, etc. But on the other hand, Farmer is one of
the best in the business.

Likely, however, should one wander blindly around the
ethernet, many website owners are absent from the
List, and few partake in this medium of communication
unless in defense of attacks, thus not photons of info
exist.

In reality, the average begining meteorite collector
will have to take some hits along the way. But also,
the 'buck fever' many new collectors get when trying
to score big would cause them to follow questionable
meteorites right off a cliff.

So in a nutshell, this hobby is not for the timid, nor
for the individual. It is a group effort, and like all
pursuits, the quality of the group dictates the
quality of the experience.

Cheers,

Martin

--- Michael L Blood <mlblood at cox.net> wrote:

> Hmmmm,
>         Even you refer to "X"
>         However, to address the thrust of your
> comment - a "newbe"
> can simply subscribe to the list (interesting term,
> as in every other
> area I know of, this would be called a "newsletter")
> but, none the
> less..... If one subscribes to this list, info
> flows. In addition, there
> are the list archives, where anyone can find the
> following reported
> information:
> - Ron Ferrell was arrested and convicted of stealing
> (a) meteorite(s) from
> a South American Museum. (this crime was also
> published in the
> internationally recognized METEORITE Magazine.
> - Brad Samson was soundly thrashed by multiple
> members of the list
> for his repeated alleged rip offs
> - Mateo Chinaletto, notorious for being lampooned on
> the front of
> T shirts got more complaints than Michael Jackson at
> a Boy
> Scout Jamboree for his multiple alleged rip offs  -
> and fairly recently, it
> might be added - all of these on the list.
>         Someone mentioned Mike Casper recently, but,
> to the best of
> my knowledge the alleged rip offs regarding that
> former dealer were
> all by other dealers - in fact, Mike was very
> popular with most of the
> collecting community - but not with a huge majority
> of dealers who
> could tell tales late into the night - in fact, I
> was not the only one who
> wondered if someone might take his life for some of
> the things he
> was reported to have done. Mike was VERY concerned,
> himself, when
> The Real Steve Arnold showed up at Tucson one hear
> with a gun strapped
> to his hip following an alleged particularly nasty
> incident. Of course, when
> asked about the gun, Steve just smiled and said,
> "I'm merely exercising
> my right to bare arms, as allowed in the state of
> Arizona."
>     Mike C. survived to move onto another venue. But
> to the best of my
> knowledge,  Mike was always very generous with
> actual customers.
>     At any rate, as I said, even a "newbe" can read
> list archives. It's all
> in there.... I did hear a rumor that the IMCA Kicked
> out Mateo for some
> of his offenses, but I have seen nothing official to
> substantiate the rumor.
> Unfortunately, the IMCA does not seem to feel that
> keeping the buying
> public informed of such things is part of their
> function. When they
> booted Chicago Steve they never would clarify actual
> offenses, even
> after all the hubub over the vagary of it all, they
> simply stated he
> violated their standards - nothing specific.
>     I know some exceptionally fine people in the
> IMCA who, I am sure, work
> very hard for no financial return.... I just don't
> understand their approach
> to these things. That is the reason I am not a
> member. I cannot say why Mike
> Farmer, Bob Haag, Rob Elliot and many other fine and
> honest dealers aren't
> members. As I said, though, I know some mighty fine
> people who are putting
> a lot of gratis hours into that organization but I
> am very disappointed the
> IMCA has not taken a stance that would more
> effectively serve to alert
> collectors to shady practices on the part of people
> who call themselves
> meteorite dealers. 
>         I do know that when the IMCA started out,
> that was the stated
> purpose. That's why I just don't get it. So, after
> brief membership, I
> dropped out. I just didn't see the point, otherwise.
>         So, Martin, there are "the names" - but, as
> I state above, they are
> all in the list archives. Anyone can read it.
>         Best wishes, Michael
>                 
> 
> 
> 
> on 6/9/05 11:43 AM, Martin H. at planetwhy at yahoo.com
> wrote:
> 
> > Michael,
> > 
> > In your commentary, you write:
> > 
> > "There is no question in my mind that there are
> > several known 
> > individuals from whom I would never make a
> purchase –
> > simply
> > because I refuse to put money in their pockets
> which
> > will subsidize
> > their continuing degradation of the field of
> > meteoritics. They needn't
> > be mentioned here, as everyone knows who these
> > scoundrels are."
> > 
> > Well Michael, if nobody mentions the names of the
> > "scoundrels" then how is a newby supposed to ever
> know
> > who to avoid? I know of many dealers over the
> years
> > who have pulled fast ones on customers. However,
> that
> > is also the nature of meteorite collecting.
> > 
> > There are dozens of classic stories in meteorite
> > history of deals gone bad, cheating, lying,
> > misrepresentation, etc., etc., etc. Bad blood
> flows
> > freely from wounds whenever people collect rare
> > objects (meteorites just have not yet attained the
> > status for the Hollywood movie makers to notice).
> > However, along with the danger is the challenge of
> the
> > hunt and the joy of success.
> > 
> > Of course you remember X, that certain a
> > well-established, glossy-catalog, world-traveler,
> > darling-of-the-press meteorite dealer who was
> busted
> > for stealing meteorites from a museum. This was
> hardly
> > X's first transgression, yet X still wanders among
> us
> > selling meteorites and supplying meteorites to
> other
> > dealers.
> > 
> > The learning curve with this hobby is rather steep
> > compared to many others. But, it seems, the
> rewards
> > for most of us make it worth it. I suspect the
> number
> > of auctions for misrepresented computer hardware
> on
> > ebay is a magnitude or two-or three above
> meteorites.
> > In fact, there there are so many unknowns with
> > meteorite collecting that it is probably half a
> hobby
> > of trusting others, and half of geology.
> > 
> > The issues Michael addresses are not new, but it
> seems
> > that it once again is time for this whale of a
> problem
> > to surface. I too took my shot at this issue in a
> > September 2002 article in the same online journal.
> > 
> >
>
http://www.meteoritetimes.com/Back_Links/2002/September/Accretion_Desk.htm
> > 
> > Remember, as Michael wrote in the same issue as
> the
> > above link:
> > 
> > There is an ancient saying from China which is
> often
> > considered to be a veiled curse: "May you live in
> > interesting times."
> > 
> >
>
http://www.meteoritetimes.com/Back_Links/2002/september/Michael%20Bloods%20Mar
> > ket%20Trends.htm
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > 
> > Martin
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- Michael L Blood <mlblood at cox.net> wrote:
> > 
> >> This sort of ignores the fact that I was
> >> specifically referring to the
> >> practice of dealing with known criminals and rip
> off
> >> artists.
> 
=== message truncated ===



		
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