[meteorite-list] Michael's meteorite market trends

Thu Jun 9 16:15:22 EDT 2005

Hmmmm,
        Even you refer to "X"
        However, to address the thrust of your comment - a "newbe"
can simply subscribe to the list (interesting term, as in every other
area I know of, this would be called a "newsletter") but, none the
less..... If one subscribes to this list, info flows. In addition, there
are the list archives, where anyone can find the following reported
information:
- Ron Ferrell was arrested and convicted of stealing (a) meteorite(s) from
a South American Museum. (this crime was also published in the
internationally recognized METEORITE Magazine.
- Brad Samson was soundly thrashed by multiple members of the list
for his repeated alleged rip offs
- Mateo Chinaletto, notorious for being lampooned on the front of
T shirts got more complaints than Michael Jackson at a Boy
Scout Jamboree for his multiple alleged rip offs  - and fairly recently, it
might be added - all of these on the list.
        Someone mentioned Mike Casper recently, but, to the best of
my knowledge the alleged rip offs regarding that former dealer were
all by other dealers - in fact, Mike was very popular with most of the
collecting community - but not with a huge majority of dealers who
could tell tales late into the night - in fact, I was not the only one who
wondered if someone might take his life for some of the things he
was reported to have done. Mike was VERY concerned, himself, when
The Real Steve Arnold showed up at Tucson one hear with a gun strapped
to his hip following an alleged particularly nasty incident. Of course, when
asked about the gun, Steve just smiled and said, "I'm merely exercising
my right to bare arms, as allowed in the state of Arizona."
    Mike C. survived to move onto another venue. But to the best of my
knowledge,  Mike was always very generous with actual customers.
    At any rate, as I said, even a "newbe" can read list archives. It's all
in there.... I did hear a rumor that the IMCA Kicked out Mateo for some
of his offenses, but I have seen nothing official to substantiate the rumor.
Unfortunately, the IMCA does not seem to feel that keeping the buying
public informed of such things is part of their function. When they
booted Chicago Steve they never would clarify actual offenses, even
after all the hubub over the vagary of it all, they simply stated he
violated their standards - nothing specific.
    I know some exceptionally fine people in the IMCA who, I am sure, work
very hard for no financial return.... I just don't understand their approach
to these things. That is the reason I am not a member. I cannot say why Mike
Farmer, Bob Haag, Rob Elliot and many other fine and honest dealers aren't
members. As I said, though, I know some mighty fine people who are putting
a lot of gratis hours into that organization but I am very disappointed the
IMCA has not taken a stance that would more effectively serve to alert
collectors to shady practices on the part of people who call themselves
meteorite dealers. 
        I do know that when the IMCA started out, that was the stated
purpose. That's why I just don't get it. So, after brief membership, I
dropped out. I just didn't see the point, otherwise.
        So, Martin, there are "the names" - but, as I state above, they are
all in the list archives. Anyone can read it.
        Best wishes, Michael

on 6/9/05 11:43 AM, Martin H. at planetwhy at yahoo.com wrote:

> Michael,
> 
> In your commentary, you write:
> 
> "There is no question in my mind that there are
> several known 
> individuals from whom I would never make a purchase –
> simply
> because I refuse to put money in their pockets which
> will subsidize
> their continuing degradation of the field of
> meteoritics. They needn't
> be mentioned here, as everyone knows who these
> scoundrels are."
> 
> Well Michael, if nobody mentions the names of the
> "scoundrels" then how is a newby supposed to ever know
> who to avoid? I know of many dealers over the years
> who have pulled fast ones on customers. However, that
> is also the nature of meteorite collecting.
> 
> There are dozens of classic stories in meteorite
> history of deals gone bad, cheating, lying,
> misrepresentation, etc., etc., etc. Bad blood flows
> freely from wounds whenever people collect rare
> objects (meteorites just have not yet attained the
> status for the Hollywood movie makers to notice).
> However, along with the danger is the challenge of the
> hunt and the joy of success.
> 
> Of course you remember X, that certain a
> well-established, glossy-catalog, world-traveler,
> darling-of-the-press meteorite dealer who was busted
> for stealing meteorites from a museum. This was hardly
> X's first transgression, yet X still wanders among us
> selling meteorites and supplying meteorites to other
> dealers.
> 
> The learning curve with this hobby is rather steep
> compared to many others. But, it seems, the rewards
> for most of us make it worth it. I suspect the number
> of auctions for misrepresented computer hardware on
> ebay is a magnitude or two-or three above meteorites.
> In fact, there there are so many unknowns with
> meteorite collecting that it is probably half a hobby
> of trusting others, and half of geology.
> 
> The issues Michael addresses are not new, but it seems
> that it once again is time for this whale of a problem
> to surface. I too took my shot at this issue in a
> September 2002 article in the same online journal.
> 
> http://www.meteoritetimes.com/Back_Links/2002/September/Accretion_Desk.htm
> 
> Remember, as Michael wrote in the same issue as the
> above link:
> 
> There is an ancient saying from China which is often
> considered to be a veiled curse: "May you live in
> interesting times."
> 
> http://www.meteoritetimes.com/Back_Links/2002/september/Michael%20Bloods%20Mar
> ket%20Trends.htm
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
> 
> --- Michael L Blood <mlblood at cox.net> wrote:
> 
>> This sort of ignores the fact that I was
>> specifically referring to the
>> practice of dealing with known criminals and rip off
>> artists.
>>         Best wishes, Michael
>> 
>> 
>> on 6/9/05 9:32 AM, MexicoDoug at aol.com at
>> MexicoDoug at aol.com wrote:
>> 
>>> These new dealers, if fear us they do, help us
>> they will  not. If hate us
>>> they do, hunt us they will.  Think Yoda, good is
>> it,  yes....Encouragement
>>> from 
>>> us, this buying of meteorites from new dealers it
>> is....  A positive network
>>> it makes, hmmmm....Positive Force to the hobby  it
>> brings....yes, expand does
>>> the force as our universe it will.    Agree with
>> Master Blood Yoda not, unless
>>> seen the Dark Force once, other Jedi  masters and
>> children do, hmmmmm.
>>> Foolish then is it, morals they have  not.  The
>> Jedi who heeds not the counsel
>>> of 
>>> the Force, to the dark side he  listens, yes...
>>> Yoda I am.
>> 
>>  
>> --
>> "You and I do not see things as they are. We see
>> things as we are."
>>      -Herb Cohen
>> --
>> If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still
>> a foolish thing.
>> 
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>> 
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>> 
> 
> 
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--
"You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are."
     -Herb Cohen
--
If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.