[meteorite-list] Lost packages (kind of long - sorry) :-)

[Mark Bowling]

Hi Mike & List,

Our company's only charge back experiences involved Germany and Mexico. 
In Mexico, a lady's older son was using her card.  He ordered once, 
waited a few weeks and ordered again and repeated again which happens a 
lot for us w/ not bad repercussions.  Before the third package got out, 
we got the first charge back.  They admitted received the packages, but 
the charge back was still approved and we didn't receive our stuff back. 
Now we don't mail to Mexico as it's nearly impossible to get a delivery 
confirmation as the CC companies require.  We do have a store and a 
distributor in Mexico, so we don't feel that's to harsh of a decision.

In Germany, the customer claimed her card was stolen and unfortunately 
the customer added a few high value items by email just after placing 
the order, so we really got stung on that one.  Now anything to Germany 
has to go with a delivery confirmation to the billing address.  It 
increases the shipping from $10 flat rate to $25 or more.

We learned that two of the stipulations that cc companies require (and 
we didn't follow) is a confirmation of delivery to the cc billing 
address (plus some standard documentation - copy of the invoice and 
customer order requests, etc).

Check with PayPal Mike, and see if that's all they need to stop a charge 
back request.  It may not work in our favour 100% of the time, but it 
does show due diligence and an effort on our part to avoid fraud.  We 
haven't had any problems since.

The main thing to find out is what happens when the package arrives 
after a charge back goes through.  Will PayPal go ahead and get your 
money for you, or do they have a time limit for delivery and say you're 
out of luck after that time.  I say as long as the customer receives the 
merchandise, they're obligated to pay for it.  That's how I operate as a 
consumer.  I has somebody ~200 miles away send me 2 books that didn't 
arrive.  They gave me a refund, but when the package arrived ~9 months 
later, I fired a check off to them.  How fun of a hobby/study area would 
it be if the collectors chase all the hunters out of the business...

What ever PayPal says doesn't help with these current packages, but it 
will help you determine what you future policy will be.  Also, we use a 
"return receipt" as a delivery confirmation for international shipments. 
It isn't called a delivery confirmation, but the description in the USPS 
regs says it provides confirmation of delivery.

Now the only problem is lost packages that never show up at all.  I 
don't know what the mail fraud implications are regarding falsely 
claiming value.  It seems to me that it creates an unreasonable 
situation on your part.  If you ask them to fax you a signed release 
regarding lost packages, it could cause you problems.  Europeans should 
probably end up having to pay the duty on the true value, and at least 
take comfort in the fact that the exchange rate is in their favor.  I 
could see you making an exception for lower valued pieces, but when it's 
adding up to thousands, you shouldn't be castigated by the European 
collecting community for requiring insurance (thus stating the true 
specimen value).  After all, if the package never gets through, they get 
their money back and didn't have to pay any duty either...

Can it be that something for scientific study has no duty, but still has 
insured value????  Worth checking into, but I'm sure somebody would do 
it if that were the case.

I wish you success in getting out ahead with these bad situations,

Mark in Vail




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Farmer" <meteoritehunter at comcast.net>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 10:01 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lost packages


>I am really getting angry.
> It seems that many of the same people in Germany who are missing 
> packages want their money back. Not one package to any other country 
> lost but in one month 7 packages to Germany?
> Let's get something strait now. Almost every customer in Europe wants 
> their packages to declare "NO VALUE" "GIFT" "For scientific study 
> only" etc, to avoid customs. Except there is a problem with that. When 
> you declare no value, then there is no possible insurance value 
> either.
> Now that some items are lost, why do you feel that it is I who should 
> lose my meteorites and get no money?
> I think then that is the customer's responsibility to accept the loss. 
> I need to get this worked out right now, because I am not going to do 
> that any more, I will have to start declaring full value on every 
> meteorite I send to Europe. We are talking well over $1000 in material 
> now lost to 7 different people.
> I read that Germany just changed systems, what do you think happens 
> when an entire country changes something? CHAOS.
> I am not willing to just accept the loss of my meteorite to a new 
> German postal system,  and I have no recourse since you all request 
> "NO VALUE" so that you don't pay customs duty on your goods.
>    Anyone got any ideas?
>
> Michael Farmer
>
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