[meteorite-list] ET re Another fake name, serious business
Michael Farmer
meteoritehunter at comcast.net
Tue Nov 16 21:45:03 EST 2004
Well, as far as the Sikhote goes, it doesnt etch because SA is a coarsest
octahedrite, and the crystals can be inches across. so if you are trying to
etch a small piece, forget it.
You need a 3 or 4 inch slice to see any pattern at all.
Michael Farmer
----- Original Message -----
From: "MarkF" <mafer at imagineopals.com>
To: "Michael Farmer" <meteoritehunter at comcast.net>
Cc: "meteor list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 7:26 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ET re Another fake name, serious business
> Hi Mike and List
>
> This brings very good questions of authenticity.
> As a minor collector (meaning I only have a small collection and I'm new
> to this having been doing so a couple of years now), I do have to wonder
> about many of the stones I've aquired over the last 2-3 yrs. I've never
> doubted before what I bought except for once when I got a SA which refuses
> to etch (although this might just be an effect of remelting upon impact).
> I would hope the dealers whom I've bought from will consider this and
> reassure me that they are on the up and up and can vouch for what they
> sell with some form of proof. I do resell small pieces so that others can
> get what I've gotten, but now I see that I have no word other than what is
> presented to me and I sure don't have the equipment to even analyze these
> small fragments although I can examine thin sections on larger pieces
> which only tells me that I have a meteorite really and would make me cut a
> usually small sample and make it smaller.
> I would hope the world of meteorite dealers would be up front and open
> with what they present. Now, I can't speak for the sellers in North Africa
> because they only know that they have a product to sell and once they
> learn A sells for more than B, they will do what they've done for
> centuries and say B is A. This has been the way of life for the peoples of
> the Med for thousands of years. Makes no difference the product. So, I
> would prefer the major dealers to do the buying and classifying from the
> desert sellers and the leftovers, those common (looking) meteorites from
> North Africa, can then still be had for a common price which the sellers
> in N. Africa will establish and then the bartering begins for that price
> which will make both parties happy. Thats how a couple dealers do this I'm
> sure and they pass that on to us and clearly state they are unclassified
> and the implication is that they are most likely from one of the big
> strewn fields. Makes for great larger display pieces of complete
> individuals at prices I might even be able to afford one day!
>
> This has been an enlightening thread and one which I hope brings us all
> some benefit.
>
> Mark
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Farmer" <meteoritehunter at comcast.net>
> To: "Michael Fowler" <mqfowler at mac.com>;
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Cc: "Michael Fowler" <mqfowler at mac.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 8:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ET re Another fake name, serious business
>
>
>> Mark, man that is the best written post I have seen in a while.
>> My composition skills are more along the lines of President Bush, below
>> par.
>>
>> Anyway, we all face a serious danger here, you look at eBay now and there
>> are thousands of meteorite auctions on. Know you seller, and know your
>> material, I suggest everyone new to this business, read everything they
>> can get their hands on and look all over the internet. Knowledge is
>> power.
>>
>> All of our collections could be damaged by this sort of thing. Zag looks
>> like Kendrapara, Allende looks like Vigarano, Saint Severin is
>> indistinguishable from Ensisheim, all are hundreds if not thousands of
>> $$$ different in per gram value.
>> Trust is all we have, lose it and you lose confidence in the hobby and
>> many collectors who get burned will be gone at that first bad experience.
>> Michael Farmer
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Michael Fowler" <mqfowler at mac.com>
>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Cc: "Michael Fowler" <mqfowler at mac.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 6:06 PM
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] ET re Another fake name, serious business
>>
>>
>>> I'm with Mike Farmer on this.
>>>
>>> First, to lay out the issues without any name calling is NOT
>>> mudslinging.
>>>
>>> Second, think of the following analogy. I rob a bank and get caught red
>>> handed. Someone contacts me privately and offers me a chance to return
>>> the money and my identity will never be revealed to the public. Do you
>>> think the public's interest is served?
>>>
>>> If Mr. Thompson has a good explanation, I'm sure he will make it known
>>> and each list member can make his own evaluation.
>>>
>>> Meantime I think this is a very serious business. I've invested many
>>> thousands of dollars in my meteorite collection. How am I to know if
>>> what I paid for is what I'm told it is? It is based on trust. If
>>> various dealers are claiming to be selling material that they don't have
>>> and maybe others are relying on "pairings" based on looks or an opinion
>>> where does it end? This could be just the tip of the iceberg.
>>>
>>> For example, I bought a piece of Lueders, a Silicated Iron. To me it
>>> looks a lot like a piece of silicated campo, What's the difference,
>>> they're both IAB Irons? Well, one is worth 5-10 times as much as the
>>> other. Once trust in the sellers of meteorites breaks down, it would
>>> call into question the value of all the rare material in our
>>> collections!!
>>>
>>> From what I've heard so far, I'm not likely to ever take my chances on a
>>> dealer who does not adhere to nomcom rules.
>>> And equally unlikely to purchase from persons who ridicule attempts to
>>> keep the selling of meteorites from descending into an
>>> bottomless pit of unverifiable pairings and unauthorized number
>>> piggybacking.
>>>
>>> My 2 cents.
>>>
>>> Mike Fowler
>>> Chicago
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Michael Blood wrote:
>>>
>>> The issue I made is NOT who is right or wrong.
>>> If you were to post a very similar announcement,
>>> saying you had addressed this issue with ET and was told to take a
>>> long walk off a short pier and he didn't care what you thought
>>> about what he was doing and you think collectors should be
>>> aware this is going on - THAT WOULD BE A TOTALLY DIFFERENT
>>> situation.
>>> Instead, you FIRST publicly chastise him. Whatever
>>> is going on - that is a poor start at ANY attempt for remedy,
>>> regardless of the circumstances involved. You don't know
>>> what is take on the situation is - you haven't even addressed
>>> the issue with him. MAYBE there is a good explanation - MAYBE
>>> there isn't. MAYBE he looked at it one way and will change his
>>> perspective once he hears what you have to say - MAYBE he
>>> won't.... we don't know, because YOU HAVEN'T TALKED TO HIM
>>> ABOUT IT.
>>> There are a good many of us who will be far more
>>> interested in ANY issue you have with any other dealer IF you
>>> report civil attempts to resolve the issue on your part met
>>> with a lack of cooperation on their part.
>>> THEN I start wondering what is going on. Then I start
>>> listening to the content. However, when it is a one way mud
>>> throwing event, all I see is mud throwing - the content is
>>> unimportant to me if the process isn't clean.
>>> Other than that, thanks for a relatively civil response on
>>> your part.
>>> Sincerely, Michael
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
>>
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